monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[Jimjam]

I’m interested by this 15dmg is a min hit of 2 (presumably in offhand). Is this something only applying to monks with their improved damage tables?

Under what circumstances is this true? I know at low skill (offence?) and strength, hits are between double dmg and a twentieth of double damage. Is this the scenario we discuss? 15dmg*2/20

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m interested by this 15dmg is a min hit of 2 (presumably in offhand). Is this something only applying to monks with their improved damage tables?

Under what circumstances is this true? I know at low skill (offence?) and strength, hits are between double dmg and a twentieth of double damage. Is this the scenario we discuss? 15dmg*2/20

There does appear to be a minimum damage for melee classes besides the damage bonus for your primary hand in some cases. As a simple example, on my SK my Fire Etched Ancient Flamberge never hits for less than 46 damage. According to the damage table:

https://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html

My 44 delay weapon should have a 34 damage bonus at level 59. So I am getting an extra 11 damage from something. In the Monk parse I provided in this thread, offhand can hit for 1 damage, so this doesn't affect offhand. My 60 Shaman still hits for 1, so this extra damage only affects melee.

In the same Monk parse from this thread, my primary weapon hit for a minimum of 10 damage, which does match the table (9 damage bonus at level 52 + 1 damage from a minimally rolled damage roll).

Either P99 uses a custom damage table for some delays, or melee classes get an increase to their minimum damage roll in some cases for their primary hand.

[Jimjam]

There is a thread where Rogean posts the formula for damage bonus on p99 including era/pvp server toggles iirc.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m interested by this 15dmg is a min hit of 2 (presumably in offhand). Is this something only applying to monks with their improved damage tables?

Under what circumstances is this true? I know at low skill (offence?) and strength, hits are between double dmg and a twentieth of double damage. Is this the scenario we discuss? 15dmg*2/20

I'm interested in that as well. As DSM pointed out, his 9/16 epic fists did minimum damage of 1 offhand and 10 (1 + 9 damage bonus) mainhand. The offhand SoS (17/28) had a minimum hit of 2. The IFS had a minimum hit of 22; if the damage bonus of 18 is correct that means a "raw" minimum of 4.

Other interesting observations from his parses:
Epic fists, both mainhand and offhand, had some interesting damage distributions.

Mainhand fist had a max of 44, min of 10, and 130 total hits. 10 (or 8% of total) were for the minimum. 16 (12%) were for 27 damage. No other hit occurs more than 8 times, with a total number of unique hit values of 32. I think 27 is likely the midpoint of the damage interval; before accounting for the 9 damage bonus that's 18, or half of max hit of 35 before the 9 damage bonus. So mainhand fist can do between 1 and 35 damage before accounting for the damage bonus, or up to 4x the nominal damage of a 9/16 weapon.

Offhand fist had a max of 31, min of 1, and 38 total hits. Min only appeared once, but 18 damage appeared 10 times, or 26% of the time. Given we saw 44 (or 35 + 9) damage mainhand, I'd expect a max offhand hit of 35 versus the observed max of 31. I predict a longer parse would show a max offhand punch of 35 or 36.

SoS had a min of 2 and max of 66, and 76 total hits. The two most frequent values were 34 with 9 (11%) and 15 with 8 (10%). This tracks with the observation from mainhand fist, as 34*2 is 68, close to the observed max of 66. I predict a longer parse may show a max offhand crush of 68.

IFS had a min of 22 and a max of 169, with a total of 53 hits. The only anomalously frequent value is the minimum hit occuring 6 times, or 11%. Half of 169 minus the 18 damage bonus is 75, but nothing in the 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s occurs more than three times.

The hit distribution (total hits divided by unique hit values) gives 4 for mainhand fist, 2 for offhand fist, 2 for offhand SoS, 1.3 for IFS.

DSM's monk has a strength of 144 and probably a 240ish offense skill. If (from the Game Mechanics wiki page) the modifier is ([Offense Skill] + [STR]) / 100, that gives us something like a 3.8-3.9 modifier which closely tracks the observed 4x modifier on mainhand punches.

A 4x modifier when combined with damage bonus would give a mainhand max punch of 45, an offhand max crush of 68, an offhand max punch of 36, and a mainhand max crush of 170. That correlates pretty well with the observed data.

The most interesting anomaly to me is the high proportion of hits at half damage and min damage with the fists. My guess is that a smaller max damage compresses the damage interval such that multiple intervals have the same damage output.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a thread where Rogean posts the formula for damage bonus on p99 including era/pvp server toggles iirc.

I would love to find that if you manage to dig that up.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The most interesting anomaly to me is the high proportion of hits at half damage and min damage with the fists. My guess is that a smaller max damage compresses the damage interval such that multiple intervals have the same damage output.

The probable cause of this has to do with how mitigation works. I don't have the exact formula at hand, but essentially AC and the other mitigation variables apply weight to your damage roll dice.

If the dice are weighted towards the lower half of all possible damage values, you'll naturally see more rolls on the lower half of the possible damage rolls. As far as I know there are no unique properties that change how this works for 1h weapons vs. 2h weapons.

[bcbrown]

First look at DSM's parse:

2h:
132 punches, max of 40, min of 1, 21/132 or 16% hit for 18. No other value occurs more than 9 times
216 crushes, max of 171, min of 22, 23/216 or 11% hit for 94. Only other value in double digits is the minimum, 13 times

1h:
213 crushes, max of 68, min of 2, 23/213 or 11% hit for 34. Only other value in double digits is the minimum, 13 times
469 punches, max of 44, min of 10, 42/469 or 9% hit for 27. Lots of other values have a count in the 20s or 30s, nothing else in the 40s.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Given we saw 44 (or 35 + 9) damage mainhand, I'd expect a max offhand hit of 35 versus the observed max of 31. I predict a longer parse would show a max offhand punch of 35 or 36.

Max offhand punch in the longer parse is 40. Prediction semi-confirmed.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I predict a longer parse may show a max offhand crush of 68.

Prediction confirmed.

Troxx, do you still think this spike at ~average damage is an artifact of small samples?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx, do you still think this spike at ~average damage is an artifact of small samples?

The pattern is pretty consistent. Looks like a lot more than artifact to me.

[Troxx]

lol @ DSM feeling the need to be worried about me?

I truly do inhabit the sands of your vagina don’t I? Thanks for letting me live rent free in that autistic head of yours [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But yes, you are welcome to beg me for parses. I’ll provide them freely to anyone else. I enjoy doing/watching them and understanding the game.

For you? I’m happy to charge you the same hourly rate I make 40hrs a week. I did that once for you pro bono - it was a waste of time. I’ve already linked the thread and most of the people in this thread read along with that other thread for the nearly 2.5 years it drug on. So yep, if you want me to actively parse or spend time sifting through old logs, feel free to Venmo me $150 for a deposit for the first hour. Hourly rates apply following.

No more freebies.

Thank you for the ongoing entertainment DSM. You make my work days a lot less boring.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol @ DSM feeling the need to be worried about me?

I truly do inhabit the sands of your vagina don’t I? Thanks for letting me live rent free in that autistic head of yours [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But yes, you are welcome to beg me for parses. I’ll provide them freely to anyone else. I enjoy doing/watching them and understanding the game.

For you? I’m happy to charge you the same hourly rate I make 40hrs a week. I did that once for you pro bono - it was a waste of time. I’ve already linked the thread and most of the people in this thread read along with that other thread for the nearly 2.5 years it drug on. So yep, if you want me to actively parse or spend time sifting through old logs, feel free to Venmo me $150 for a deposit for the first hour. Hourly rates apply following.

No more freebies.

Thank you for the ongoing entertainment DSM. You make my work days a lot less boring.

I feel sorry for Troxx. He is projecting all of his problems on to me.

He pretends that he is simply denying me parses specifically, but he hasn't supplied parses for anyone in the past 2 years on any topic. It's just a silly excuse to stroke his ego.

He seems to think there are tons of people asking him for his parses and data. But you can't find any evidence of this.

His reputation for being the data guy has long since been destroyed after 1000+ posts of trolling, insults, etc., and zero parses or data over the past two years.

I urge you to take a look at reality, and not your delusional *reality* you currently live in.

Troxx has yet again admitted to purposely obfuscating information for the sake of trolling specific posters. This is just sad and pathetic behavior that hurts the community. It doesn't hurt me, it hurts the other people reading these threads. I don't know why he is so gleefully destructive in his actions.

I will never understand his logic. He thinks that making an ass of himself publicly, and publicly proclaiming he will never give out data to back up his baseless claims without a real money fee is... hurting me specifically? Does he think this makes him look good somehow?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Example of DSM math:

DSM: Did you know that Usain Bolt can run 100 meters in approximately ten seconds?
Non-autist: Cool.
DSM: By my calculations that means Usain Bolt can run from New York to Los Angeles in just 5.2 days.
Non-autist: No man, that's not how that works.
DSM: Clearly you just don't understand math.