monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you can get baton you can get cek, both are trips. I don't mind ya like 1h, but 2h parses better I've linked mine a lot over the years here.

Edit: I don't remember ya doing anything in aftermath and I was an officer.

I am not saying you can't get a Cek sword. But you can get unlucky. Guild doesn't focus on Cek, other guilds keep getting him for whatever reason, sword doesn't drop when you are there, etc. You can end up getting your 1h weapons first.

If you weren't watching as an officer, that's on you.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm glad that you agree that tier for tier 2h weapons will out-dps dual wield. We are finally making progress.

You can check the thread. I never said otherwise for level 60 characters. Epic Fist and SoS did out DPS IFS without fistweaving at level 52. I have the proof. The damage bonus on 2h is lower at 52. Sorry you've been delusional and attacking a stawman this whole time. Try reading next time please. As usual, you just make things up lol. The one problem I will say is your "tier" definition is fuzzy to be honest. You'll probably try to fudge it somehow.

The only progress that need to made is on your end. Provide data for your claims, and accept data that disproves your previous assumptions.

I am glad to see you agree BiS 1h for Rangers at 60 will out DPS all 2h weapons Rangers can use other than Cek Sword and Shovel. We are making progress.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not saying you can't get a Cek sword. But you can get unlucky. Guild doesn't focus on Cek, other guilds keep getting him for whatever reason, sword doesn't drop when you are there, etc. You can end up getting your 1h weapons first.

If you weren't watching as an officer, that's on you.

Sorry you did nothing, that's not my fault

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am glad to see you agree BiS 1h for Rangers at 60 will out DPS all 2h weapons Rangers can use other than Cek Sword and Shovel. We are making progress.

I actually didn't agree to that at all. I would be curious to see how a primal 2hb or 2hs stacks up. If the data is there to support it, sure I'd agree to it. Until then? I'm undecided.

For monks? Yeah they get primary hand triple attack which throws a big bone to 2handers. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see some of the end-ish game but not top tier 2handers perform shockingly well to Gharns/FoN.

But it worth repeating ... there are only 2 ranger usable weapons in the game during Velious that are in the same tier ratio-wise as BiS dual wield. Are we not to compare apples to apples? If you can get the good ranger 1handers, you're in a guild that kills targets that can get you a Shovel of Harvest of Cek sword.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point still stands that a Ranger who gets their 13/17 and 14/18 weapons first will probably out DPS all ranger 2h weapons except for Cek Sword and Shovel of the Harvest.

Yeah those are the only ranger usable 2handers in the game at that tier of quality.

Primals? Stellar for the proc and decent if you don't have better to swap to after the proc but they are not at all in the same ratio category.

I'm glad that you agree that tier for tier 2h weapons will out-dps dual wield. We are finally making progress.

The next best weapon is a Primal 2hb, which is 45/44. The ratio difference between Shovel (1.16) and Primal 2hb (1.02) is 0.14, which is a 13% loss in ratio.

And the difference between a primal velium 1hander 13/20 (0.65) compared to Baton of Flame 13/17 (0.76) is a 17.5% along with a 17% reduction in damage bonus (static for 1-handers - this phenomenon is not seen as much with any 2hander as it is delay dependent) dealt.

If you're gonna make comparisons, compare apples to apples. Primal to primal ... engdamge ratio to endgame ratio.

It just so happens that Rangers only have 2 weapons on their list:
-Harvest
-Cek sword

Monks get 4 options:
-Abashi
-VP
-Harvest
-Facesmasher

Warriors get 7 options
-4x 2hs out of ToV with higher tier ratio
-3x 2hb out of ToV with higher tier ratios

Knights get the most (8 options)
-3x 2hbs
-3x 2hs
-2x 2hp

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just to defend "napkin" math, we can do the math as well with the given data:

Epic Fist Minimum Damage (Primary Hand) = 10
Epic Fist Maximum Damge (Primary Hand) = 44
Epic Fist Average Damage (Primary Hand) = (10 + 44) / 2 = 27

Stave of Shielding Minimum Damage (Off Hand) = 2
Stave of Shielding Maximum Damage (Off Hand) = 66
Stave of Shielding Average Damage (Off Hand) = (66 + 2) / 2 = 34

Imbued Fighters Staff Minimum Damage (Primary Hand) = 22
Imbued Fighters Staff Maximum Damge (Primary Hand) = 169
Imbued Fighters Staff Average Damage (Primary Hand) = (169 + 22) / 2 = 95.5

Epic Fist Minimum Damage (Off Hand) = 1
Epic Fist Maximum Damge (Off Hand) = 31
Epic Fist Average Damage (Off Hand) = (1 + 31) / 2 = 16

DSM, I've been looking through the thread, but I can't find where you showed your work for these average damage calculations.

These two posts have some average damage calculations, but they don't include any of mainhand epic fist, SoS, IFS, or offhand epic fist.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...2&postcount=60
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...4&postcount=86

Could you remind me where you came up with your min/max values for these weapons?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM, I've been looking through the thread, but I can't find where you showed your work for these average damage calculations.

These two posts have some average damage calculations, but they don't include any of mainhand epic fist, SoS, IFS, or offhand epic fist.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...2&postcount=60
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...4&postcount=86

Could you remind me where you came up with your min/max values for these weapons?

Min/Max damage values are directly from the parse I did with the video. The parse has those values for all the tested weapons.

[Keebz]

I'm curious how primal/priceless 2hb stacks up against dual primal 1h (or similar). I've never bothered to get the 1h, though I've considered it for the hp/resists (my monk is generally not in camp).

Anyone have parses?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm curious how primal/priceless 2hb stacks up against dual primal 1h (or similar). I've never bothered to get the 1h, though I've considered it for the hp/resists (my monk is generally not in camp).

Anyone have parses?

Primal to primal the 2handers should win (at least for warriors and monks with innate triple attack). The ratio is solid even without factoring the avatar proc.

I've got Dain axe 42/43 (inferior ratio) on my warrior and it puts out really healthy dps. Unfortunately, I can't reliably use it on raids without risking ripping aggro. It tends to happen every time I whip it out. The ratio and white threat paired with a 125DD + stun proc makes using it a liability if not the designated tank.

A NToV tier (none of them have a threat proc) ratio 2hander is one of my next planned purchases.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Primal to primal the 2handers should win (at least for warriors and monks with innate triple attack). The ratio is solid even without factoring the avatar proc.

I've got Dain axe 42/43 (inferior ratio) on my warrior and it puts out really healthy dps. Unfortunately, I can't reliably use it on raids without risking ripping aggro. It tends to happen every time I whip it out. The ratio and white threat paired with a 125DD + stun proc makes using it a liability if not the designated tank.

You should actually parse this suff for once, instead of assuming.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Primal to primal the 2handers should win (at least for warriors and monks with innate triple attack).

Did you consider that the fist wraps are 15/20 instead of the normal 13/20? 15 dmg is particularly interesting to me because it is the cutoff where the min hit goes from 1 to 2 dmg.

I suppose I should just parse my 2h, but that means I'd have to log on. So out of the question at this point.