monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the record my monk hasn’t used epic since shortly after (within a day or 2) of the 2h dmg bonus patch. Only used epic fists after that to push interrupt complete heal mobs (when that was still a thing).

That was years ago and no I’m not going to sift back through years worth of logs to find those old fights. I know what the truth is and I have played that game with you enough times to know that it won’t matter. Your mind is closed and incapable of change once you hunker down. We have threads hundreds of pages and thousands of posts long demonstrating that.

You do you. If you want to believe wrong things, more power to you.

See? When Troxx is asked for data, he just can't be bothered, and doesn't need to provide it. When other people provide data that puts his reality into question, it is always insufficient or wrong.

[Troxx]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=406923

Five thousand, seven hundred and twenty two posts in a single thread of DSM arguing with everyone else. Data given, data ignored. Logic and sound discussion on a near infinite loop, summarily ignored.

This is what happens when you don’t stop replying to a DSM thread.

You do you. If you want to believe wrong things, go for it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Troxx has gone back to spamming threads and trolling. Everybody knows this is what Troxx does after he lost an argument. Thanks for admitting defeat.

The link he posted just shows how big of a troll Troxx is. It doesn't hurt me or help him.

[Eisai]

If you're 'fist weaving' you still eat the same damage shield and riposte as dual wield right?

Also, this post is months old with most of the posts debating the length of parseed data sets? Must be running on a grant to have dragged out the conclusion for this long.

If you really need a controlled environment (cause, science) it might be best to strip down to weapons only to create a baseline unperverted by other factors that can create points of argument?

Stein wielding paladin spamming flash to remove dodge/riposte/etc. Fight stuff that take forever to whittle down but can't kill the pally either?

Remember when the most important aspect of an argument was to be the undeniable winner? All you need here is the data - assuming you actually do want to win.

Or maybe this isn't about monks at all...

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Eisai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember when the most important aspect of an argument was to be the undeniable winner? All you need here is the data - assuming you actually do want to win.

Or maybe this isn't about monks at all...

Agreed! The best data wins, and that is what matters. It doesn't matter who is correct.

You are correct posters like Troxx have an ulterior motive. He is famous for spamming threads when people post something he disagrees with. It is quite disruptive. You can see he never provides data to back up his positions.

Originally Posted by Eisai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're 'fist weaving' you still eat the same damage shield and riposte as dual wield right?

Yes, you get hit with damage shields and ripostes from fist weaving punches. So I agree with you people would be less likely to do it if they are worried about it in a specific fight.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Eisai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're 'fist weaving' you still eat the same damage shield and riposte as dual wield right?

Not quite. You can only punch once per 2hb swing, so the effective delay of the offhand fist equals the 2hb. This is usually much less than the delay of the offhand DW weapon so fist weaving will still eat less DS/riposte damage in absolute terms than DW. But yes, the ratio of dealt damage to DS/riposte damage will be closer to dual wield than that of the 2hb.

Originally Posted by Eisai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you really need a controlled environment (cause, science) it might be best to strip down to weapons only to create a baseline unperverted by other factors that can create points of argument?

Stein wielding paladin spamming flash to remove dodge/riposte/etc. Fight stuff that take forever to whittle down but can't kill the pally either?

You don't really need that. It's easy to strip out ripostes while analysing logs. The real challenge is just that it takes a lot of time to gather a statistically significant amount of data (somewhere from a half hour to several hours per setup), combined with the fact that scientifically competent experiment design is not commonly taught at the high school level. I wrote up some of my thoughts on experiment design a while back:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By no means am I a professional statistician, but I have worked with plenty. High quality statistical testing requires, at a minimum:

An explicit mental model of the world, with all assumptions stated clearly. You need to be able to articulate your understanding of the world before you can know whether your results indicate an improvement of that understanding.

An explicit hypothesis. You need to know what you are looking for in your experiment. Ad-hoc exploratory data gathering can be useful in trying to formulate a hypthothesis, but that exploratory data will not be useful in determining whether a hypothesis is confirmed or rejected.

An experiment design. You need to know ahead of time what data you wish to gather, how to gather it, and when to stop the experiment. An example of a flawed experiment would be trying to show that a certain gear combo causes a certain DPS increase, and then stopping your parse as soon as you show that DPS increase.

Sanity-checking the resulting data to confirm your assumptions have been met. If not, then your understanding of the world is flawed and your data unusable. You need to first run a different experiment to find and fix the flaws in your assumptions.

Run a well-defined, repeatable analysis. You need to know ahead of time what metrics you wish to calculate. You should also do some sort of calculation of statistical confidence, whether frequentist or Bayesian.

Scientific integrity. You need to publish your results whether or not they support your hypothesis. If the results violate some of your assumptions, you cannot rely on the results of any data analysis.

Originally Posted by Eisai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember when the most important aspect of an argument was to be the undeniable winner? All you need here is the data - assuming you actually do want to win.

Or maybe this isn't about monks at all...

I think you're on to something here!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you're on to something here!

If only Bcbrown ever called Troxx out for his lack of data. He never does for some reason. Yet he agrees with the sentiment that data is good. Strange.

[Snaggles]

A 2-3 vindi parse is exactly that. Most of us have at least a dozen of those with similar buffs. Add them together it’s some level of consistency.

I’ve been parsing on Vindi for years. My best without avatar using Rip’s 2h is 74dps. My best with a Silver Whip of Rage/Claw is 66. I’ve seen a 70 from a Baton ranger before, never what Rip had done.

If we go parse on blue cons numbers are all over the place, and often way high. Nobody pulls off a freak parse on Vindi unless they are a freak.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A 2-3 vindi parse is exactly that. Most of us have at least a dozen of those with similar buffs. Add them together it’s some level of consistency.

I’ve been parsing on Vindi for years. My best without avatar using Rip’s 2h is 74dps. My best with a Silver Whip of Rage/Claw is 66. I’ve seen a 70 from a Baton ranger before, never what Rip had done.

If we go parse on blue cons numbers are all over the place, and often way high. Nobody pulls off a freak parse on Vindi unless they are a freak.

If a baton ranger is doing 70 DPS without avatar, and a Cek Sword is doing 74 DPS without avatar, the best 1h is pretty close to the best 2h. Certainly not the vast difference people keep implying. You are looking at a 5.5% difference between the two weapons. If you don't have Cek Sword or Shovel of the Harvest, a baton ranger is going to out DPS all other 2h options using your data.

I point this out because someone who does happen to get their 1h raid weapons before their 2h weapons would incorrectly use an inferior 2h weapon if they believed the 2h generalization without parsing.

[Snaggles]

Did I say the Baton ranger was without Avatar? Even if he was, which he wasn’t, that 14dps gap isn’t being closed by Avatar. Maybe 7-8 or so.

Yea I got my claw and my whip before the 2h. With SCHW’s I was hitting high 60’s, I got a 72 or so with a spiked seahorse belt and Shissar. I’m not deleting them but they were bagged until I got my primal.