[Need Help ASAP] Lists and Lines For Camps

[Infectious]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Camp%20Rules is literally this. Everything listed there comes from a public GM ruling quote.



This is largely correct. It sounds (and is) incredibly lame, but our all-volunteer staff doesn't have the bandwidth to enforce proper/classic lists ... which is exactly why they introduced the P99 version ... /list.

So OOT AC, the next player has to have a presence in the zone or he loses his spot. Good to know.

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by Infectious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So OOT AC, the next player has to have a presence in the zone or he loses his spot. Good to know.

The camp rules are pretty clear on this,the camp holder can pass to whomever they want as long as they are within a few minutes of spawn.

[sajbert]

”Unofficially speaking, AC camp, sure. If you are next at the list I would stay near by so the trade off can happen quickly. If the list keeper gets his spawn and leaves and you are not there, you can lose the camp. For SF, I find it dumb to have to stay in the zone for that long. But if you wish to keep your spot it's in your best interest to be there during the spawns.
The thing is, lists are really driven by the players, if you are the list keeper it's in your rights to tell people if they want on the list, they must stay in the zone.
Here's the thing folks, we want people to have fun, but there are lots of players who like to abuse what we say and what few rules we have out there. If we suspect you are lawyerquesting or being a dick, we have no issue suspending you for PNP. If you feel I'm not being fair, go speak to Llandris, Braknar or Sirken. Don't be a jerk to me, I'm really here to help you guys enjoy the game.
If you ever need help understanding how a camp in particular works, don't be afraid of posting in the petitions / exploits forums asking a question, I'm happy to work it out with you. But keep in mind, we don't have solid rules written down for specific camps because every situation is different, but we do state guidelines here and there.”


This really isn’t complicated. Camp holder decides and as long as he is still online he can give the camp to whomever he wants. In this case there is a list and camp holder agreed to let people onto the list who’re playing their alts, this is fine as long as they’re able to show up in reasonable time to take over.

It’s really not that hard. The only unknown (to me) is if someone betrays the /list and starts corpsing rings or giving it to their guild instead.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

”Unofficially speaking, AC camp, sure. If you are next at the list I would stay near by so the trade off can happen quickly. If the list keeper gets his spawn and leaves and you are not there, you can lose the camp. For SF, I find it dumb to have to stay in the zone for that long. But if you wish to keep your spot it's in your best interest to be there during the spawns.
The thing is, lists are really driven by the players, if you are the list keeper it's in your rights to tell people if they want on the list, they must stay in the zone.
Here's the thing folks, we want people to have fun, but there are lots of players who like to abuse what we say and what few rules we have out there. If we suspect you are lawyerquesting or being a dick, we have no issue suspending you for PNP. If you feel I'm not being fair, go speak to Llandris, Braknar or Sirken. Don't be a jerk to me, I'm really here to help you guys enjoy the game.
If you ever need help understanding how a camp in particular works, don't be afraid of posting in the petitions / exploits forums asking a question, I'm happy to work it out with you. But keep in mind, we don't have solid rules written down for specific camps because every situation is different, but we do state guidelines here and there.”

Where is that quote from? I'd love to add it to the rulings page.

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only unknown (to me) is if someone betrays the /list and starts corpsing rings or giving it to their guild instead.

This can't happen because of how /list works (except during the holiday double loot). Once you loot the item, you're off the list.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The camp rules are pretty clear on this,the camp holder can pass to whomever they want as long as they are within a few minutes of spawn.

You have to honor a list. Handing off to whomever you want isn't honoring a list. Not only that...the campholder is required to tell you who is next on the list.

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have to honor a list. Handing off to whomever you want isn't honoring a list. Not only that...the campholder is required to tell you who is next on the list.

None of that is true,played held lists are a courtesy not a requirement.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules
Link to camp rules,with GM's take on it quoted.

Note where it says camp holder can pass to whoever they want.
This is obviously shitty of the person and most people will follow a player held list, but not doing so is right in the rulings as ok.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Note where it says camp holder can pass to whoever they want.

The staff has never said it in a quote I could find and record, but there's a very long precedent of them supporting the "camp holders can pass camp to whomever they want". A few motivated individuals have locked down camps for weeks on P99, and the staff did nothing.

Again, it's absolutely unclassic and a terrible policy ... but I don't think the staff wants it .... they just don't want to have to babysit every single camp exchange in the game either, and they don't want to eliminate handing off camps to friends/guildmates entirely, so I think they see it as the lesser of two evils.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

None of that is true,played held lists are a courtesy not a requirement.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules
Link to camp rules,with GM's take on it quoted.

Note where it says camp holder can pass to whoever they want.
This is obviously shitty of the person and most people will follow a player held list, but not doing so is right in the rulings as ok.

I don't see it noted anywhere in the rules that camps can be handed off to whomever the holder wants. What I do see is a requirement that someone be added to a camp list if asked and that notification of who is next on list is also a requirement. The player-defined rules are part of the PnP, and not honoring player-defined rules *can* warrant GM action.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see it noted anywhere in the rules

You have to remember, the staff hates spelling out lots of explicit rules: that entire camp rules page had to be compiled by a player (me) from a bunch of disjointed random posts made by GMs over the course of a decade. And even that isn't "official" ... it's just that GMs tend to rule the same way as they describe in the forums.

Now, I could write a treatise on why I believe this approach is detrimental to them, and how their position on keeping rules as obscure as possible actually creates more disputes. That's why I took the time to compile the camp rules page ... and I'd argue that it's benefited the server for everyone to know the rules ... but again, it's not an official rulebook.

The only true rulebook is the PnP and what the GMs do in the game ... and again, we have a wealth of evidence from in-game that P99 staff support handing camps off to friends and guildmates, even when such handoffs result in weeks-long monopolization of camps by a few individuals.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have to remember, the staff hates spelling out lots of explicit rules: that entire camp rules page had to be compiled by a player (me) from a bunch of disjointed random posts made by GMs over the course of a decade. And even that isn't "official" ... it's just that GMs tend to rule the same way as they describe in the forums.

Now, I could write a treatise on why I believe this approach is detrimental to them, and how their position on keeping rules as obscure as possible actually creates more disputes. That's why I took the time to compile the camp rules page ... and I'd argue that it's benefited the server for everyone to know the rules ... but again, it's not an official rulebook.

The only true rulebook is the PnP and what the GMs do in the game ... and again, we have a wealth of evidence from in-game that P99 staff support handing camps off to friends and guildmates, even when such handoffs result in weeks-long monopolization of camps by a few individuals.

I'm well aware you wrote the page, having played P99 from just about server up. And thanks! It's also been MY experience that GMs have supported the player-rules almost universally...from the inception of PnP. I also remember the chaos before PnP was enacted, and it wasn't pretty. If people want to be asshats I guess that's up to them...but asshats are the reason I won't play blue anymore. And no asshats wanna play on red anymore, either...where asshats belong, lol. So...I like green, and so far green seems to favor good player etiquette. Which is all anyone asks.

Also...if we really want to get technical...FTE would apply after camp holder has item (and yeah, I know you can't tell it's been looted. hence, asshattery). However, this is contrary to established player server rules and etiquette...which is why GM's would and should support lists.