How about...(raidmobs) - Page 11

Tewaz · #1 08-04-2011, 11:32 AM

I think they do need to address this because having 500+ people looking to raid by the time Velious rolls out is NOT Classic and so this needs to be addressed. I think the spawn timers should be increased just so some guilds will get tired of raiding.

I played on Drinal and we did pick ups on all raids in classic and Kunark during the Velious era because Cats in Hats seemed to only hang out in NToV. Naggy and Vox were usually up and Gorenaire chased me around constantly in DL. I don't feel like that will happen on this server though, I think we will still deal with poop sockers going after everything instead of just the SoL raid mobs.

My 2 cents.

Aadill · #2 08-04-2011, 12:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Tewaz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played on Drinal and we did pick ups on all raids in classic and Kunark during the Velious era because Cats in Hats seemed to only hang out in NToV.

Who were you and did you ever raid Hate or Kael with Aadill and Ploxious?~

Mezzmur · #3 08-04-2011, 01:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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I have yet to see TMO provide an idea that isn't "Lets poopsock on the ledge as opposed to on the spawn point" - which is basically the same thing.
...

I'm TMO and I posted a suggestion in several threads and have not had a single reply.

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Originally Posted by Mezzmur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I posted this on the RNF thread initially, but there were no replies/responses to it. I think poopsocking is inevitable in some form or another. If someone wants a mob (which trak seems to be the soup de jour) they're going to do whatever it takes to get it. If 2 mobs are in window, it's whatever mob is the #1 choice.

An example is VS vs Trak last week. We opted to roll the dice and wait at VS and then move to Trak. It's possible that Trak pops before VS and we miss it. Such is the game you play.

As Karst suggested in the conversation to move to jugg door, you'll just have people pooping at the door. Then you'll have trains, flames, and leapfrogging as everyone scrambles to get back to ledge as it is everywhere else. My vote is just to prevent spawn-socking and leave the rest as is with FTE. It's been like that for a long time now, but became more of an issue when the highest-end targets became hotly contested as opposed to being nearly solo targets. We spent a lot of times cothing down(and watching TR kill or wipe) and trying to race while TR was already camped there and logged in faster. I clearly remember that being the point at which I was told we were going to log at the ledge too, because a coth race can't beat a login race.

Here's what I said elsewhere:
GMs should make Trak AE Banish to bubble for the first 15 seconds if you aggro. Prevent spawn-socking and promote ledge camping. All I've heard is camping @ a mob buffed when in window since I've been leveled enough to raid. Not just Trak, hear about TR & others at VS, etc. As someone said previously, I thought people buffed/camped @ other targets pre-kunark when a target was very important to them.

If a target becomes less important, the camping will slow or stop. Right now, Trak is #1 for almost everyone because of VP keys, so it's going to remain highly contested for a while.

If you have 1-2-3-4+ guilds, it won't matter. First one to get in and engage with the right numbers wins. We've spent plenty of times having 40+ people at ledge and not prepared to engage and TR starts to engage. Or we've jumped the gun and wiped. The drama really started when socking spawn and claiming the mob with 15 people. FTE will bite people in the ass and you'll win some or lose some. It's an easy way for a GM to come in and say "yes, you won agro" or not.

This gets more difficult because rules on other mobs(like sev) are no kiting til engaging. You'll still get petitions and require GM interactions unless you had a spawn-location-leash where the dragon was auto-reset if kited or pulled for too long. I'm pretty sure NToV dragons had something of this nature.

Again -- this is all non-classic -- but it could help with some of the server issues to allow for competition. Otherwise just leave it all as it was and deal with socking for a few months. My vote is on FTE and if I want to stay logged in I can, if I don't like the idea of being a raider, can join another guild and be a casual player. People have those options.

Moving outside the door is going to create leapfrogging and training and is nearly impossible for anyone to enforce. And lead to more GM petitions. Even if trains are accidental -- they happen and in raid situations people escalate instantly. I was in a King group and Taken was heading to juggs and got a lot of adds while our puller was splitting. The initial reaction is "you trained us" even when it's an accident. *shrug* A code side change is consistent and we already have non-classic encounters.

If people want to camp on the ledge and play alts then mobilize as fast as they can, I think it's their prerogative. It's the spawn-socking that's what sucks, never being afk, imho. But - I think most people are willing to do what they need to do to get through the VP-Key-Bottleneck right now.

2c

Aadill · #4 08-04-2011, 01:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Mezzmur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mezzmur's 2 coppers

^ Not only that but a petition was already sent in to remove 15 man on spawn permanently from the rules.

A gentlemen's agreement to camp on ledge should've been made the norm when Kinsawt and Zeelot were talking. That's a reasonable expectation of any guild to at least reaffirm the need to race and not stand around with auto attack on. When it was turned into where rules about where anyone is allowed to camp, how many people can log in, and what mobs they are allowed to kill Zeelot said no. I don't blame him one bit because that's not a suggestion anyone can enforce.

Camping on spawns is something that we should avoid. Apparently everyone enjoyed the rush for Trak the other morning when everyone was on the ledge, so why not continue to enjoy that? On the patch day last week we all expected Trak to pop and we all ran into Trak's lair. The claim in say was "15 ON SPAWN IT'S OURS GET OUT" was made. TMO didn't move against that claim but herded groups to go kill another raid mob that popped. Our prerogative was to bring loot to the guild and we did. We didn't want the 15 man on spawn rule to be enforced and didn't realize TR was being serious about it because no one had used it in months. When they invoked it days later we took measures to petition to remove it (seeing as TR wants it removed as well I don't see a problem with this).

Those are the first steps, what next?

Loke · #5 08-04-2011, 01:30 PM

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Originally Posted by Mezzmur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If people want to camp on the ledge and play alts then mobilize as fast as they can, I think it's their prerogative. It's the spawn-socking that's what sucks, never being afk, imho.

This is a part that I agree with whole heartedly. I don't define socking as having buffed characters camped out at the ledge. What I consider socking is when players are actively logged in but doing nothing but wait for a mob - which is what I would love to see end.

Originally, camping a character at the ledge was the way it was done - then one side (not even sure I know which, but it doesnt really matter) started keeping their raid force logged in so as to cut that minute or two off that it takes to switch characters - that is when the poopsocking started. It reached full force when both raids up'd the ante by camping on the spawn point instead of the ledge.

As I type this, there are 10 characters from each guild sitting on the ledge doing nothing - myself included. This is a shame and a waste of time (well, I'm watching movies and would be doing that anyway, but still..) What Kins was trying to propose with the tracker/coh bot limit was to force some artificial mobilization. His idea was less about getting people behind a door or making an imaginary line in the sand and more about removing the incentive for guilds to sit in the lair by removing it as an option.

As long as TMO has been a merged guild with DA, I've never seen you guys not camp out at the ledge like us - the CoH option has already been proposed by Kins and denied by Zeelot - and I guess that is fine - it is Zeelot's decision. However, you make it sound like the only reason you camp at the ledge is because we do, when we've made it very clear we'd agree, and actually prefer a system that encourages a race as opposed to ledge camping.

I think your banish idea isn't such a bad one, but the result would still be people sitting on ledge, waiting until his 15 second or whatever banish window is over, and then engaging. While it would be better, it wouldn't solve the issue of poopsocking imo - although like I've said to Skope, I'm willing to put my endorsement behind any idea that I think will make things better, so yea, I'd totally support this idea if another, more effective option isn't brought up (still prefer 100% variance, but anything is better than what we've got).

Aadill · #6 08-04-2011, 01:23 PM

It's a more viable solution than the others I have read. It's not just about TMO/TR*.

*Granted, the largest set of forum posts seem to come from IB/DA TR/Asc TR/TMO flames.

Skope · #7 08-04-2011, 04:50 PM

Loke, xzerion isn't the problem. If he actually ran your guild instead of the other fuckheads you've been calling officers (minus 1 or 2. Hi karsten) you wouldn't be in this mess.

Change the rules as many times as you want, if you guys are still being cockmonkeys then you'll still act like cockmonkeys. Honestly, have you ever wondered that maybe if you two guilds were banned from raiding for a month or two just how much healthier the server would be? if you weren't so involved in this nonsense and would let some shit slide then we'd all be better off. but no, instead we have 2 guilds bickering back n' forth relentlessly pointing fingers at each other for months/years accusing each other of the same shit that they're own guild is pulling, be it cheats/favoritism/camping, whatever; hogging every fucking thing they can get their sneaky little hands on just to spite the other. it's annoying. grow the fuck up. you've been playing this same game for years and are now trying to convince me that your shit doesn't stink. paint it whatever color you want, it smells like shit.

Skope · #8 08-05-2011, 07:13 AM

Loke, how many times has this shit happened and now you think the outcome will be different? fucking get over it.

Here's some things you may already know but won't admit to yourself or your guildies

- Nobody is impressed with your dragon loot.
- Everyone thinks you're losers for losing sleep over mobs you've killed a million times and loot you'll give to your alts or sell in EC.
- you can have all the try-hards. in fact, please point them out to me before they apply to divinity and let other guilds know as well. i'll be sure to send them your way
- you've done this shit for more than a year and still haven't had your fill
- you two guilds will bump heads, spill it over on the forums and think that the rest of us give 2 shits. we don't. sometimes it's entertaining, most of the time it's annoying.
- the server would probably be better off without every single TMO/TR member, except xzerion, karsten, tiggles and knuckle. why? because xzerion actually does good and the rest are pretty cool guys who doesn't afraid of anything.
- you've been the laughing stock of the server for how long now?
- it's EQ. it's not hard. you get 8 spells/abilities and you use 5 of them at most. congratulations.

you will eventually poopsock trak just to cockblock. you already have your keys and you're doing it now. changing the variance doesn't change the fact that you're assholes to each other and in turn the rest of the server. we'd all be better off without either of you. please go away

Anger · #9 08-05-2011, 07:27 AM

This thread seems serious enough.

Tags reserved.

Ektar · #10 08-05-2011, 07:49 AM

The many misconceptions of the nonhardcore raider!

Or what I label it from my own experiences and assign it arbitrarily to the general case.

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