I read the PNPs outdoor camp guideline but still...

[tadkins]

By "mod manipulation" are you just talking about rule enforcement? 'Cause a server without rules where everyone can just do whatever they want to each other sounds like a miserable experience, tbh.

[magnetaress]

Thats what happens now.

There are fewer good ppl. And more bad ppl. That's why there are more ppl in hell (bluegreen) than red (heaven) only the richeous can survive free will. Where as the sinners need Satan to show himself through his power authority and providence over others, rules. Aka domination.

Also know as lawful evil. The biggest difference is on an FFA pvp no pnp server it's the players themselves that make and enforce rules and consent. Rather than the corrupt few who selectively enforce rules "to the best of their frail human abilities". Against consent. Because sometimes the rules are enforced, sometimes not. For the benefit of the most persistent and effective liars and manipulators. With no chance if you enforcing your own rule independently. Which kind of bullying is better? Healthier? More sane? Best to live free rather than queue up subjugated and restrained behind artificial and seldom accurately or equally enforced limits.

In all my 23 years of Everquest. This I have learned.

[tadkins]

I don't agree. This does happen now, but us regular players have a recourse against those who break the rules and grief us. In your world I wouldn't be allowed to have that option, and those without an army of friends to come to our aid would have absolutely no way to handle our bullies. Not everyone's going to be strong enough to handle that, especially if I were a 30ish enchanter against a 50ish necromancer.

Not everyone's interested in that kind of of harsh cutthroat dog-eat-dog world. RL is already enough like that and I already struggle there. Game doesn't need to be that way either.

Edit: replying to magnetaress there

[magnetaress]

The point is to become strong enough. That's life's most greatest quest and the purpose of it. Then to pass that strength on to others.

[tadkins]

Not everyone can become strong. I prefer a world where we have compassion and empathy for one another. With order and stability and a place in it for everyone, even the weak.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not everyone can become strong. I prefer a world where we have compassion and empathy for one another. With order and stability and a place in it for everyone, even the weak.

You can't ever demand or expect compassion.

It's an illusion within an authoritarian system.

Real compassion does exist on red99 tho. Having real players invested in the game and servers health come to my aid, not forced, not because of a job, or duty, because it was the right thing to do. That is special.

There aren't enough GMs heavily invested in integrity. Granted most if not all have been mostly alright, despite their failings.... there really just isn't enough, and who checks the people checking? Or the people checking the checkers?

Everyone should be able to enforce the rules tho.

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can't ever demand or expect compassion.

I can expect a basic level of it in an organized society. We all pay to maintain it after all. I wouldn't be getting the help I'm currently receiving in your desired world and I would probably be dead in a ditch from starvation by now.

It's the same with this game. I joined knowing there are rules and GMs who enforce them. If folks want to grief me, then I can continue on confidently knowing there is a recourse against that.

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Real compassion does exist on red99 tho. Having real players invested in the game and servers health come to my aid, not forced, not because of a job, or duty, because it was the right thing to do. That is special.

I think if that were true, Red would have a much healthier population than it currently does. Something doesn't add up there though.

[acrostoa]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not everyone can become strong. I prefer a world where we have compassion and empathy for one another. With order and stability and a place in it for everyone, even the weak.

It's not weak. Evolution has selected for those traits and that's why the vast majority of us exhibit them. They are a very successful solution to the challenges posed by nature.

A horse is born able to walk. A whale is born able to swim. A human is born able to request help.

These online anarchists espouse a desire to live that way where their behavior has limited repercussions. They are truly hot house flowers that can't enact their detached, fictional, dog-eat-dog ideology in the real world because sociopaths truly exist there and they get weeded out very quickly without a state/king/strongman to allow them to exist.

Let's hope they never have to experience in real life what they are so quick to advocate for online.

I just want to thank everyone again for taking the time to read the thread and input their perspectives. You folks are great!

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by acrostoa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's hope they never have to experience in real life what they are so quick to advocate for online.

Hear hear. Reading that sort of thing gets depressing, but then I remind myself that we don't actually live in that sort of world and I feel thankful. xD

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by acrostoa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

without a state/king/strongman to allow them to exist.

Very tldr drug post about whales walking. This part is highly accurate tho.

The young people of this world raging at their employers and politicians and parents to fix their problems....

Is directly analogous...and I'm sure the GMs feel this deeply aswell from their perspective. I doubt they will confirm however.

Yes phsychos exist. They are definitely only further emboldened when handed UN leadership and given rotational priority over select mobs through either some lottery systems or easily gamable or scriptable FTE system. Make them also the leadership of only like the three main large zerg guilds dominating the system and its easy to see why the aforementioned proponents of this system suffer Stockholm syndrome and are gaslighting me for suggesting there's a better way outlined by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ himself. Who went into the temple and cast out the usurers.