Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I reject your points. I categorically disagree with your posts about allowing pocketing, the value of pet ch, and the lack of cleric utility. I’m sure this will cost me points in debate class, but this isn’t a formal debate, and even if it were, you’re not adjudicating anything. Sit down. Play your shaman. Now for the people who actually do this content:

ST trash clear. Enc/clr is clear, do you go 2 encs for 2 newly createds? Necro for FD pull/safety rez? Shaman for malo? Keep in mind the ST key is not soulbound in era, you don’t want to be stranded

OP did not say pocket characters are forbidden, and pocket characters are a common occurrence on P99. You cannot remove them from the discussion, no matter how hard you try. People will simply ignore this made up rule, including myself.

If you want to explain why you think Clerics are better, please do so.

[fortior]

I have done so multiple times.
Shaman upsides: malo, slow, torpor (just the big upsides)
Cleric upsides: rez, fast stun, 2x DA, paci, pet CH
Both have plenty of hp buffs to keep an enchanter safe.

DA gives you the nice and guaranteed trick of letting the cleric pacify (w or w/o donal’s bracer) and DA holding the mobs on a crit fail. The mobs will crowd around the cleric, letting the enchanters ae mez them super quickly and safely. I also value pet CH to preserve particularly valuable pets like in PoHate, SG, seb, PoM, and ST. I also value rez; I understand your idea about pockets but prefer a hard 4 class limit as the thought experiment is more interesting to me this way.

I think sleepers tomb trash and fear are the best areas for this group, aka challenging enough to want to stick together. For ST I can definitely see a place for the shaman just for malo, for fear I can’t. For ST you need pet CH and for both you really need rez. There’s no amount of skill that would make me comfortable in either zone with the theoretical risk of being stranded.

For fear, you need a wizard (unless you pocket that too…) so my team would be wiz/enc/clr/flex. For ST you need an enc/clr, you kinda want malo, you really need pet dps, and a puller would be nice, so I would add shm/nec or shm/enc to the core. If the group makeup has to stay the same, I can only see dropping the shaman for the wizard.

I always thought clerics had limited utility as well. Playing with good clerics (aka, botb winners, bis mains) really made me reconsider that. It’s a super hardy, versatile class with surprisingly good CC in paci/atone and two DAs is fantastic.

I prefer looking at uncommon picks in situations like these, because a lot of times oft repeated wisdom is wrong. That’s why I mentioned the xp/dkp aspect of race selection in the shaman race thread, and why I named druid and wizard in this thread since depending on the situation (is it real world? Is there competition?), mobility is absolute king.

If you wanted to really get fancy, you could use rezzing as a second bind spot by dumping corpses. This could allow you to for example: wiz/enc/enc PoH mini snipe, clr elsewhere with prepped corpses to rez people to. Obviously an edge case but there’s so many creative things you can do.

[fortior]

It’d be super interesting to brainstorm about power groups containing uncommon picks like druid, necro, mage (probably unrealistic, just so nerfed). I’m also interested in the absolute top target killable by this setup. Vindi with charm pets chain blurred to regen them?

[Duik]

DSM. Using the HP values of the dress wearers and a monk tank TOTALLY IGNORES the fact the CH cleric is targetting hasted charms with upwards of 8k. Right in the belly of CH max efficiency.
Sure your lil shaman can "solo" stuff and good on ya.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM. Using the HP values of the dress wearers and a monk tank TOTALLY IGNORES the fact the CH cleric is targetting hasted charms with upwards of 8k. Right in the belly of CH max efficiency.
Sure your lil shaman can "solo" stuff and good on ya.

You aren't getting 8k hp mobs at level 39, or at 52 generally speaking. Those examples were referncing that level range. Of course CH is more effective in the mid to upper 50s, this was already stated. Please read before commenting.

[Troxx]

Thanks for the laugh.

Your points have all been thoroughly discussed in the first few hundred pages of this thread. Ironically … let us circle around to the very first reply of this thread. I wonder who it was:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaman Enchanter Enchanter Cleric. If you are planning on doing Fungi Tunic camp then probably swap 1 Enchanter for a Necro, so they can pull.

I’m curious on the “why” behind the fundamental shift. Clearly you saw the value of a cleric for this theoretical group. You didn’t even bother to mention leaving cleric off the table until dozens (possibly a few hundreds) of pages in. Actually, you know what? I’m not going to lie … I’m not curious about the why. I already understand it.

You lost the argument hundreds of pages ago. If a cleric is present - the shaman adds little to no value that isn’t redundant. So what’s a DSM to do after losing multiple arguments multiple times? Kick the cleric out of the group and advocate for allowing pocket clerics to be considered to cover the severe gaps in the shaman’s toolkit when managing multiple buzz-saw charm pets.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the laugh.

Your points have all been thoroughly discussed in the first few hundred pages of this thread. Ironically … let us circle around to the very first reply of this thread. I wonder who it was:



I’m curious on the “why” behind the fundamental shift. Clearly you saw the value of a cleric for this theoretical group. You didn’t even bother to mention leaving cleric off the table until dozens (possibly a few hundreds) of pages in. Actually, you know what? I’m not going to lie … I’m not curious about the why. I already understand it.

You lost the argument hundreds of pages ago. If a cleric is present - the shaman adds little to no value that isn’t redundant. So what’s a DSM to do after losing multiple arguments multiple times? Kick the cleric out of the group and advocate for allowing pocket clerics to be considered to cover the severe gaps in the shaman’s toolkit when managing multiple buzz-saw charm pets.

I never said Clerics were bad in this group. I certainly see value in them. Discussing whether a Shaman or Cleric is better if you have to pick one is not the same thing as saying a Cleric is bad. But Clerics can be pocketed, so there is less need to main one the more I thought about it. I look at reality, where pocket clerics exist and are common practice. OP did not rule them out, so they are fair game.

As you can see, Troxx cannot rebut the points I made, or supply counter points. He just continues to concede via trolling. He's made it clear multiple times he doesn't understand the Shaman class very well.

If Troxx ever wants to actually win an argument instead of pretending to win like a child, he can read this post and attempt to rebut it https://project1999.com/forums/showp...postcount=4843

[Duik]

Thanks dsm. You hardly need to have anyone else here, you are the most conceited person I think I've ever had the misfortune to encounter either personally or virtually.

Please continue to post before thinking.

[Duik]

Shammy wiff staff of forbidden rites. FTW!

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shammy wiff staff of forbidden rites. FTW!

Don’t forget pocket cleric with second staff for recharge!!