Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol

Nobody is giving up cleric for shaman in this setup. Complete heal for pets, multiple lines of stuns to include aoe stun, rez, DA, powerful emergency heals …

Tell us a specific camp that needs the Cleric CHing the pet. The Shaman can tank the mob, removing the need for the pet to take damage. This increases pet damage too, because the pet is hitting the mob from behind. Shaman can buff the pet with Avatar as well.

Plenty of people are fine with dropping the Cleric. Shaman/Enchanter/Monk is an extremely powerful trio. No Cleric needed as a main character. Pocket Cleric is more than capable of handling the occasional res and pet CH.

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tell us a specific camp that needs the Cleric CHing the pet. The Shaman can tank the mob, removing the need for the pet to take damage. This increases pet damage too, because the pet is hitting the mob from behind. Shaman can buff the pet with Avatar as well.

This is kind of an interesting question, because you need to find something that actually needs the extra power from the cleric, at which point you're going to start to have questions about whether you can actually even do the camp at all with a cleric/ench/ench/X team.

For example, I actually think Derakor the Vindicator is doable by Cleric/Enchanter/Enchanter/Druid, and he's very clearly not doable by Shaman/Enchanter/Enchanter/Druid. But that's right at the bleeding edge of what's possible, I don't think anyone has actually done that before.

There's some other stuff I can think of that might qualify, but some of them are pretty scary for a 4 man.

I think you might be able to do HoT minis with charmed hatchlings, but the pull and setup would be some crazy nonsense. If you can get Essedera pulled somehow (quad mage run in and back up to train out to west, maybe?) then I think you can have a cleric do a picture room trainout with brazier pet and gate to ToV entrance on tag. I think cleric CH on charmed pets can stay ahead of incoming damage once slowed, but I don't think torpor can.

I've heard Sleeper's Tomb trash clears leverage clerics well because charmed pets have like 30k hp, but I don't have a key so I'm not sure about details there.

Neb, maybe. He does like 700 dps while hasted, so probably 100 or so slowed? Probably too much for just Torp, but likely ok for CH.

Edit: Maybe Vaniki? Hits a little harder than Neb, but not a lot. Might be able to do with Cleric/Ench/Ench/Magician?

There's probably more, but those are the things that come to mind.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is kind of an interesting question, because you need to find something that actually needs the extra power from the cleric, at which point you're going to start to have questions about whether you can actually even do the camp at all with a cleric/ench/ench/X team.

For example, I actually think Derakor the Vindicator is doable by Cleric/Enchanter/Enchanter/Druid, and he's very clearly not doable by Shaman/Enchanter/Enchanter/Druid. But that's right at the bleeding edge of what's possible, I don't think anyone has actually done that before.

There's some other stuff I can think of that might qualify, but some of them are pretty scary for a 4 man.

I think you might be able to do HoT minis with charmed hatchlings, but the pull and setup would be some crazy nonsense. If you can get Essedera pulled somehow (quad mage run in and back up to train out to west, maybe?) then I think you can have a cleric do a picture room trainout with brazier pet and gate to ToV entrance on tag. I think cleric CH on charmed pets can stay ahead of incoming damage once slowed, but I don't think torpor can.

I've heard Sleeper's Tomb trash clears leverage clerics well because charmed pets have like 30k hp, but I don't have a key so I'm not sure about details there.

Neb, maybe. He does like 700 dps while hasted, so probably 100 or so slowed? Probably too much for just Torp, but likely ok for CH.

Edit: Maybe Vaniki? Hits a little harder than Neb, but not a lot. Might be able to do with Cleric/Ench/Ench/Magician?

There's probably more, but those are the things that come to mind.

I always appreciate your posts on the bleeding edge gameplay. It's awesome! I also agree it's tough to think of a camp where the Clerics power is really needed, while also being doable with a four player caster group (no Warrior).

My assumption going into this thread has always been a relatively "normal" group. They'd do the obvious money camps like Fungi King, maybe go into Hate if they are feeling courageous.

Doing a low man Vindi is awesome, but not worth the time/effort/guild competition for most players. Vindi BP is like 100k, but it would be easier to just get and sell a few Fungis. This is more of a "because it's awesome!" kill, rather than a normal thing a group would be doing.

Once you are at the point where you are trying to low-man vindi, you probably aren't restricting yourself in terms of group size and classes. You'll do whatever it takes to get the job done.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've heard Sleeper's Tomb trash clears leverage clerics well because charmed pets have like 30k hp, but I don't have a key so I'm not sure about details there.

The pets have good hp but slowing is unreliable with only tash so you're back to valueing the shaman in addition to the cleric imo, although maybe a mage could work. I doubt that the shaman could tank+heal even preslowing.

I think the clearest case for me is Chardok Overking. Duoable but rough for ench+cleric. I don't think it's slowable or shaman self heal tankable.

I did have a pretty good experience duoing a round of puppets ench/shaman with the shaman torp tanking, would do it again given we have a pocket cleric available.

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The pets have good hp but slowing is unreliable with only tash so you're back to valueing the shaman in addition to the cleric imo, although maybe a mage could work. I doubt that the shaman could tank+heal even preslowing.

I think the clearest case for me is Chardok Overking. Duoable but rough for ench+cleric. I don't think it's slowable or shaman self heal tankable.

I did have a pretty good experience duoing a round of puppets ench/shaman with the shaman torp tanking, would do it again given we have a pocket cleric available.

Puppets is a great duo camp with Shaman, assuming you can get one that is decently geared and isn't scared to tank them. The max hit is scary looking but they have terrible attack so torp is enough as long as they're not trying to DoT or anything. Any strong melee or charmed pet class can hold that camp in a duo with a shaman, its great.

[Troxx]

#Im-a-shaman
#I-cant-complete-heal
#i can’t cast rez
#my-best-heal (torpor and requires 60) is also a slow
#i cannot cast stun
#my fast heal sucks compared to a cleric
#Awww shamans need not apply …


Awww fuck I do not fit into this very narrow theoretical best 4 person all caster group …

#SadSilkyMist

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

#Im-a-shaman
#I-cant-complete-heal
#i can’t cast rez
#my-best-heal (torpor and requires 60) is also a slow
#i cannot cast stun
#my fast heal sucks compared to a cleric
#Awww shamans need not apply …


Awww fuck I do not fit into this very narrow theoretical best 4 person all caster group …

#SadSilkyMist

As you can see, Troxx is unable to explain his position, and cannot name even one camp that needs a Cleric CHing an Enchanter pet.

He is also unable to acknowledge that pocket Clerics are common practice, because people recognize you don't need a Cleric main in your group for reses. Necromancers can res as well.

Troxx doesn't understand the Shaman can tank the mob and Torpor themselves, which means the pets are not slowed, and not taking damage. This also allows the pets to do more damage via hitting the mob from behind. The Shaman can buff the pets too.

Thank you for conceding that you are unable to explain why you think a Cleric is better than a Shaman in this group. You wouldn't be trolling if this was easy for you to explain.

Remember that Troxx is an admitted troll, and thus we cannot simply take his word for anything:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=114

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look guys, I’m an honest fella. I will readily admit to having engaged in trolling behavior with regards to DSM. You all have functioning brain cells … so I know that you all already know this. I also know that many of you also have done this. I’m not apologetic in the slightest sense of the word either.

He needs to back up his position with facts and logic, not typical trolling.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody is giving up cleric for shaman in this setup. Complete heal for pets, multiple lines of stuns to include aoe stun, rez, DA, powerful emergency heals Â…

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tell us a specific camp that needs the Cleric CHing the character. Pocket Cleric is more than capable of handling the occasional res and pet CH.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As you can see, Troxx... cannot name even one camp that needs a Cleric CHing an Enchanter pet.

Hey DSM, just because you tell, demand, or ask another poster (such as Troxx) to do something (such as "Tell us a specific camp that needs the cleric CHing the character") does NOT mean they are under any sort of obligation to do so.

You should be well aware of this objective fact, as multiple previous posts in this very thread (from multiple different people) have repeatedly tried telling, demanding, or asking you to provide evidence of your Shaman root-rotting mobs separately from the group that your Shaman is actively playing/grouping with. You provided no evidence (despite your many hundreds/thousands of posts in this thread) that support your claims of such activities.

Therefore, I am not sure why your post seems to have an accusatory or "gotcha!" vibe, as if Troxx not doing what you told/demanded/asked him to do is somehow a bad thing or somehow proves that "Troxx is unable to explain his position, and cannot name even one camp that needs a Cleric CHing an Enchanter pet.", as it proves no such thing, and if it did, then by the same logic you would be simply inadvertently/unintentionally conceding that YOU YOURSLEF, by not providing evidence of your Shaman root-rotting mobs parallel to your group (that you are actively grouping with) would be sufficient cause for another poster (such as myself, Troxx, etc.) to objectively claim that you are incapable of providing evidence to support your claims of your Shaman root-rotting multiple mobs parallel to your group.

Additionally, your specific use of:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As you can see, Troxx... cannot name even one camp that needs a Cleric CHing an Enchanter pet.

was - objectively - a blatant straw man, because Troxx simply did not claim that any camps exist which "needs a Cleric CHing an Enchanter pet".
Cute straw man, was it fun to argue against?
Hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[fortior]

Cleric isn't just healing power, it's also rez. Not having rez in some of these zones is an unacceptable risk imo

[Vexenu]

Charming a big nasty with a Cleric partner is so much nicer knowing that if charm breaks at a bad time he'll be backing you up with Stun Command, Aego, CH and if all else fails, rez.

Meanwhile with some fat fuck Shaman he's just gonna buff you with Talisman of the Jagoff and impotently spam Chloro before you both take a dirt nap.