Highspeed rail is B$it

[Jibartik]

I misunderstood what you said about the central location of a train station being downtown, inferring that you meant it was handy because you could just walk to downtown instead of be at an airport 30 miles outside of it.

Edit: Also I want to say I do have a boomer impression of train stations - I cant think of one that gives me the feeling of security I get at airports (especially internationally). So maybe you're a zoomer and you're more comfortable with your work saying, "take the train downtown" because them's quitting words in my day. To me that means, walk out of a pair of doors onto the street in the center of a major metropolitan city. If it's not that, then that's new to me.

That doesn't make me disingenuous and it doesn't mean everything that comes out of my mouth is garbage (which somehow means I'm not garbage but my insides are?) and that Im a liar.

Now by all means, add on whatever fee's you want to make my number a garbage disingenuous lie and you can win.

edit edit: I also have flown into japan a couple of times and the first time I got from my airplane to downtown Tokyo with no guide via train and my memories of that are nightmares. Sheer nightmares. Like just a maze of fast paced machines, moving in and out of tunnels, and people speed walking shoulder to shoulder like blood cells with no emotion. Transfers to different lines, signs everywhere with scribbles all over them. No way. It was hell on earth. And that's japan, the like mecha of trains. Im still calling bull$hit on trains > planes.

[Jibartik]

This is the train problem that air travel will always defeat it's just superior and my entire point of OP is that it costs more to take trains and it does.

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[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by nostalgiaquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But, just to show i don't disagree with everything you say, I am also highly in favor of Nuclear power, and think the EU is dumb as fuck for phasing it out while preaching about the environment and buying oil from Russia.

What I dont understand if we really wanna to talk about is I dont get why do trains cost more than planes!? That's just insane to me.

Even that japanse one was outragious to me, it was like 100 dollars, but it said its cheeper if you get a rail pass, but that's 230 dollars for 7 days.. that's insane to me, like, to be like, "well im going to take this train enough that I better spend 230 this week, oh damn I didnt end up using it after all, oh well.

Like what a hell life trying to min max that would be lol no thanks, im not getting sold on trains the more this goes.

[nostalgiaquest]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I dont understand if we really wanna to talk about is I dont get why do trains cost more than planes!? That's just insane to me.

Even that japanse one was outragious to me, it was like 100 dollars, but it said its cheeper if you get a rail pass, but that's 230 dollars for 7 days.. that's insane to me, like, to be like, "well im going to take this train enough that I better spend 230 this week, oh damn I didnt end up using it after all, oh well.

Like what a hell life trying to min max that would be lol no thanks, im not getting sold on trains the more this goes.

I will agree that the Japan bullet train is crazy expensive. And to further your point if I remember correctly, that rail pass is only available with a foreign passport. It's mainly to increase tourism.

If you're basing your decision based soley on cost, then yeah take the flight. It's a matter of how much you're willing to pay for comfort, time (in some cases), and convenience. If you need to get from Tokyo to Kyoto, flying from Narita to Osaka, and all the additional time spent doing that, is probably not worth the money saved. Especially if your company is paying for it. Europe i've found the costs to be about the same, so it's up to other factors to choose.

Another example. I used to take the bullet train to Nagano all the time for skiing. I think there's a way to do it by plane, but it'd be convoluted and involve transfers. On the train I can bring my big ass ski bag and another big bag with all my gear for no additional fee. But when I went to Sapporo, it was usually cheaper to suck it up and take the plane. Also, Japan has an awesome internal shipping company called Takkyubin that can get your skis anywhere in the country in like 2-3 days.

This is one of the things Japan has done correctly. Since they built their infrastructure with trains being the main mode of travel, they go to many places planes dont. They compliment each other in a way.

Not anti plane. Pro train.

Edit - last post for me for a while. Weather is nice and I'm gonna take an edible and go paddle board on the canals!

[nostalgiaquest]

Aww you deleted your post as I was responding. Ok i'll rewrite it.

I went through my previous posts and can't find anywhere that I called you garbage. But if I did, then I'm sorry.

Alls i'm sayin is, as i've stated before, there are multiple reasons why taking high speed rail over a plane if it's available. And to state that it only costs 30 bucks to fly from Tokyo to Kyoto is in fact disingenuous. It doesn't factor in travel costs to Narita, or Osaka back up to Kyoto. Please tell me you understand this?

I'm 36. Not sure which Oomer category that puts me in, but I've found major train stations to all be as safe as airports. There's armed guards, and certified taxi's lined up right outside. Maybe back in like the 80s and 90s they were crazier, I'd believe that for sure.

I'm not anti plane. I'm pro train. They're not mutually exclusive ideas. And i'm grateful to have the option to choose which one is better in different situations.

Major airports right now in Europe are all totally fucked. They laid off staff for covid, and now are slammed during the summer holiday season.
https://www.traveloffpath.com/these-...pping-flights/

For example, last Monday I took a 7am flight from Amsterdam to Zurich. Even with online check in, and without a checked bag, it took me almost two hours just to get through the security line.

My girlfriend had a conference in Austria that she booked a flight for weeks in advance. The day before departure it was cancelled due to airport problems. Became a whole cluster fuck of a mess getting her there in time to give her presentation.

Two weeks ago Schiphol had a problem with their baggage check system and for an entire day passengers weren't allowed to check baggage. Can you imagine what a mess that caused?

https://www.businessinsider.com/schi...true&r=US&IR=T

These are some of many reasons I might choose to take a train rather than fly.

[Jibartik]

What I mean by secruity in airports is they are all the same.

But train stations are always different and most are basically a like hub. There's a lot of local flavor in every station I've ever been, which makes them all random.

Yeah the airline industry is collapsing - the world is coming to an end and we're in the middle of some gigantic financial reset where the ultra wealthy are going reduce the population by a big number because they believe the scientists... but thats another discussion.

As far as 1980-2015's getting around in airports was fine and international flights were always a routine.

I cant say the same for needing to transfer on a train in a country that spells its A's like a square.

[Kaveh]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I mean by secruity in airports is they are all the same.

But train stations are always different and most are basically a like hub. There's a lot of local flavor in every station I've ever been, which makes them all random.

Yeah the airline industry is collapsing - the world is coming to an end and we're in the middle of some gigantic financial reset where the ultra wealthy are going reduce the population by a big number because they believe the scientists... but thats another discussion.

As far as 1980-2015's getting around in airports was fine and international flights were always a routine.

I cant say the same for needing to transfer on a train in a country that spells its A's like a square.

The airlines have been failing and getting bailed out forever. Heard of Panam? They were basically a monopoly at one point and still couldn’t make air travel profitable after they made an acquisition mistake

Which is the point. Your ticket price means nothing. It isn’t a reflection of cost in the same way that you driving on a “free” government maintained road isn’t reflective of its cost

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/17/b...-pandemic.html

$18.6 billion in 2001, ~$50 billion during Covid. $300,000 cost per job saved with the recent bailout

Pretty expensive man! In 2021, the airline/air transport industry spent $108 million on lobbying. Glad to see it’s working

https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-...summary?id=M01

[Homesteaded]

Originally Posted by Kaveh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The airlines have been failing and getting bailed out forever. Heard of Panam? They were basically a monopoly at one point and still couldn’t make air travel profitable after they made an acquisition mistake

Which is the point. Your ticket price means nothing. It isn’t a reflection of cost in the same way that you driving on a “free” government maintained road isn’t reflective of its cost

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/17/b...-pandemic.html

$18.6 billion in 2001, ~$50 billion during Covid. $300,000 cost per job saved with the recent bailout

Pretty expensive man! In 2021, the airline/air transport industry spent $108 million on lobbying. Glad to see it’s working

https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-...summary?id=M01

Interesting stuff here…I get your point now. What makes airlines so hard to turn a profit on? My guess is safety and government regulation don’t help.

[Jibartik]

I think overall I am just shocked that trains in general are more expensive than planes.

My original argument was that planes were faster trains were cheaper and we found out while arguing that its slower in some cases, (although for the private flyers it's still faster.) but cheeper to fly pretty much across the board (except for those fees im still not on the same page about but thats no big deal)

But it being more comfortable, maybe that's a good argument to stop the subsidies from governments for airlines, Idk what trains get but I know the modern ones are still in the 'trying to sell it to the population that its a good way to travel' phase of their lifespan, vs planes has been through that and then some and another part of the reason it's falling apart, it's just an old industry and so its got a lot of bad habbits.

Ive always thought if airport were turned into malls and the airlines took care of everything then they'd try harder - air travel is awful now and its been that way for a long time, makes me sad because when I was a lot younger it people used to dress up to fly. Now it's just a disaster, and I haven't been to europe since before covid, but the doomer in me is glad to hear it's a total fricken disaster. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think overall I am just shocked that trains in general are more expensive than planes.

Varies region by region, ultimately a complex issue with a lot of causes. Here, stateside, a lot Amtrak routes are priced high simply because they know they can and it won't hurt what business they have all that much because most of their customers are picking it for reasons other than cost. Japanese railways, even back to the JNR days, have a history of striving less for cost-efficiency and more for optimal service and punctuality, and they do a good job of it.

A long-gone U.S. railroad, the Virginian, had a slogan that I've long appreciated: "Pay up front for the best." Quality isn't cheap. Constantly doing everything the cheapest you can gets you a race to the bottom and the flying cattle cars we all loathe.

Your railroad route map looks like a mess because so many lines have been torn out over the past seventy years. The class 1's have been abandoning all the branchline and short mileage they can since before any of us were born. They don't want passengers, they don't want LCL business, they don't even want a few loads here and there, they only want the major shippers and long hauls. At one time basically every little town in the nation was connected, and then you had another network of electric interurbans besides. It's gone.

Speed is expensive. A lot of modern turbofan-powered airliners, today, are slower at cruise than some of the turbojet-powered jets from 50 years ago. The modern jets are dramatically cleaner and more cost-effective though. Commuters and regionals have been going back to turboprops and that's slower (and cheaper) still.

Danth