JBB, is it really that good?

[sajbert]

Well to be fair, selling JBB is pretty common and it's more important to have spells like torpor, malo, your dots and the like. After that I'd still understand someone wanting to get WR bags or MQ a pegi cloak or somesuch before rebuying their JBB.

[Troxx]

Let’s do some math!

In 8 seconds you could
-click JBB once for 263 dmg
OR
-cast torpor and have 2 seconds left over
OR
-cast canni 4 2-3x

In 32 seconds you could …

Click JBB 4x (1052 damage)
OR

-cast torpor once (1200-1500 heal) subtract 200 mana
AND
-cast canni4 8x (656 mana for 1184hp) - net positive 455 mana and 16-315 health
AND
-cast bane, pox or Ebolt once with mana left over

Dmg per mana with those spells range 3.88-4.86 damage per mana yielding 1789-2216dmg for the surplus mana you generated.

That’s why I sold the JBB. Between managing debuffs and frankly having better returns on time invested by casting actual spells … there are much better uses of your time as a shaman than clicking your JBB at level 60.


… unless you’re trying to put out damage in a fast paced xp group with 2 charm pets failing miserably at trying to keep up with a mage pet.

(Ps: or farm low level greens)

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let’s do some math!

In 8 seconds you could
-click JBB once for 263 dmg
OR
-cast torpor and have 2 seconds left over
OR
-cast canni 4 2-3x

In 32 seconds you could …

Click JBB 4x (1052 damage)
OR

-cast torpor once (1200-1500 heal) subtract 200 mana
AND
-cast canni4 8x (656 mana for 1184hp) - net positive 455 mana and 16-315 health
AND
-cast bane, pox or Ebolt once with mana left over

Dmg per mana with those spells range 3.88-4.86 damage per mana yielding 1789-2216dmg for the surplus mana you generated.

That’s why I sold the JBB. Between managing debuffs and frankly having better returns on time invested by casting actual spells … there are much better uses of your time as a shaman than clicking your JBB at level

Still waiting on a response.

Every click of JBB is 8 seconds lost that could be more productively used elsewhere. As for what to do when you have unspent time on your most important tasks (keeping it slowed/debuffed, refreshing dots, healing yourself, and casting canni) … click your epic! When fighting big ass nasty mobs, those other priorities are so high that I often find my epic dot will have worn off many ticks before I have a spare moment to refresh.

JBB really is such a minor contribution that it doesn’t really fit well into the crap that needs to get done with finite time to get it done in.

The cool thing about the shaman class is that they are so incredibly overpowered that you can be successful even using the JBB or otherwise playing inefficiently.

DSM is the poster child for this phenomenon apparently.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still waiting on a response.

Every click of JBB is 8 seconds lost that could be more productively used elsewhere. As for what to do when you have unspent time on your most important tasks (keeping it slowed/debuffed, refreshing dots, healing yourself, and casting canni) … click your epic! When fighting big ass nasty mobs, those other priorities are so high that I often find my epic dot will have worn off many ticks before I have a spare moment to refresh.

JBB really is such a minor contribution that it doesn’t really fit well into the crap that needs to get done with finite time to get it done in.

The cool thing about the shaman class is that they are so incredibly overpowered that you can be successful even using the JBB or otherwise playing inefficiently.

DSM is the poster child for this phenomenon apparently.

There's no response needed. I've addressed these points and your math post points multiple times. You need to read the thread.

If you are unable to re-apply your Epic buff every time it wears off on a tough mob, that simply shows you aren't very efficient with your spell usage. That is an issue with your playstyle, not an issue with JBB.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Silk did already address this, citing a ~17% improvement in DPS (assuming no opportunity cost), which is three or four times that as the rough estimate we produced for +20 Str on a melee.

Correct.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are unable to re-apply your Epic buff every time it wears off on a tough mob, that simply shows you aren't very efficient with your spell usage.

In order of importance:

1. Stay alive
2. Maintain debuffs (see above)
3. Apply damage

Failure at 1 makes the rest irrelevant. Failure at 2 increases the likelihood of failure at 1. Any efforts made at 3 imply you are winning at 1 and 2.

When it comes to the application of damage, Bane is >36 dps for a single 5 second cast. EB is 26.6 dps for a single 6.1 second cast. Pox is 19.33dps for a 5 second cast. Epic is a back loaded (most of the damage comes in the last third of its duration) 15.83 dps for a 9 second cast.

So yeah I don’t sweat it if I lose a couple of ticks of mana-free epic dot between refreshes because it does have the least returns on time investment.

Then again, maybe I don’t sweat it because I have plenty of mana because I’m not wasting my time clicking an 8 sec JBB?

Food for thought.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In order of importance:

1. Stay alive
2. Maintain debuffs (see above)
3. Apply damage

Failure at 1 makes the rest irrelevant. Failure at 2 increases the likelihood of failure at 1. Any efforts made at 3 imply you are winning at 1 and 2.

When it comes to the application of damage, Bane is >36 dps for a single 5 second cast. EB is 26.6 dps for a single 6.1 second cast. Pox is 19.33dps for a 5 second cast. Epic is a back loaded (most of the damage comes in the last third of its duration) 15.83 dps for a 9 second cast.

So yeah I don’t sweat it if I lose a couple of ticks of mana-free epic dot between refreshes because it does have the least returns on time investment.

Then again, maybe I don’t sweat it because I have plenty of mana because I’m not wasting my time clicking an 8 sec JBB?

Food for thought.

I don't sweat it either. You simply don't have a good enough rotation, so you can't fit as much in. Improve that and you might see some JBB usage! You can do Epic, JBB, survival, debuffs and damage.

[Snaggles]

I’ve just always seen the shaman game as pretty basic. Don’t die (pre-slow), don’t run out of mana (canni/torp constantly), NEVER let Bane or Epic linger without reapplying.

In theory JBB is good dps. You just basically have to do nothing else and ideally take no damage. To keep up with bane assuming no free server tick (7 only) a JBB has to click 6x at 8 seconds vs bane 1x at 5 seconds. Even then, the JBB is 48 seconds where bane is only 42 for that damage duration so you can cast again to refresh.

[zelld52]

JBB is okay if you're not tanking.

If you're tanking you need to keep Torpor up.

Torpor is 200 mana for 4 ticks. (24s)

Need to cast Cannbalize IV 4x to get enough mana for Torpor.

Canni 4x = 2 ticks (12s)

So you have 12s leftover before you NEED to Torpor again, and need to start canni'ing again for the next Torpor. Do you re-slow, refresh DoTs, , get a few extra cannibalize in, or click JBB? Hrmmm

[Troxx]

no response to math?

[Penish]

If you've noticed, Silk is a legit headcase.

Literally 98% of the people in this thread know he's wrong, and have also proved it, yet somehow he still disregards any concrete information posted on these pages and moves right into I'm right mode.

Apparently this is the hill he's going to die on, lawl