Solo Barbarian Shaman Stat Allocation

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if we're theorycrafting which is going to help more, you have yet to show why Mana would help more than HP.

I have explained this multiple times. You just aren't reading.

75HP at level 60 will not help you survive a pre-slow crisis. If you are at 75HP and the mob still isn't slowed, you are dead because mobs hit for 140+ at level 60.

150-250 mana will generally not help you survive in a pre-slow crisis either. In both cases, it would come down to rare luck.

With that being said, Mana can help you survive solo encounters at level 60. I have been in situations where WW Dragons resisted too many spells, and I ended up being OOM with around 50% HP. Even though the mob was slowed, cannibalizing 200 mana to cast another Torpor would cost 450 HP. With the mob being able to double attack for 400, you are at the risk of losing ~900HP in a very short period of time. That is very risky when 50% of my HP is 1300 HP. I would be at 400HP when Torpor went off, assuming I don't get double attacked again for 400. Having that 200 extra mana would mean I could cast a Torpor without having to cannibalize, giving me more breathing room to recover. Last time I checked, 450 HP is greater than 75HP hehe.

Realistically speaking you only need enough max HP in a solo encounter to safely pre-slow a monster most of the time. After that the extra max HP is generally wasted, as you never go to max HP during an encounter. In a crisis situation, you will often times end up dying anyway, even if you had an extra 100HP, due to how hard/fast mobs hit at 60.

[Vivitron]

I'm writing as someone recieving the advice but applying it to my low level ogre shaman.

If I understand the formulas correctly, for sub 200 wisdom, a point of wisdom returns 4x as much mana as a point of stamina returns hp. Post 200 wisdom, wisdom returns 1.55x as much mana as sta returns hp.

So for earlier game I'm asking myself if I have a choice between a 100mana item and a 25hp item which do I wear? I think I take the 100 mana item -- equivalently, I'd rather have my starting points in wisdom than stamina when I'm not geared past the wisdom soft cap.

What about 25 hp vs 39 mana (25*1.55)? The hp sounds good to me at that ratio, so if I'm geared like loramin with soft capped wis and not-capped sta, the sta looks preferable to the wis.

Do I think my wisdom will be soft capped, then? The magelos I've seen in this thread make me think I'm likely to be sub 200 wisdom until I'm approaching the stamina hard cap, especially as an ogre. I made my shaman before I read this thread, but I'm feeling comfortable with my choice of 25 wis / 5 sta.

[Siberious]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm writing as someone recieving the advice but applying it to my low level ogre shaman.

If I understand the formulas correctly, for sub 200 wisdom, a point of wisdom returns 4x as much mana as a point of stamina returns hp. Post 200 wisdom, wisdom returns 1.55x as much mana as sta returns hp.

So for earlier game I'm asking myself if I have a choice between a 100mana item and a 25hp item which do I wear? I think I take the 100 mana item -- equivalently, I'd rather have my starting points in wisdom than stamina when I'm not geared past the wisdom soft cap.

What about 25 hp vs 39 mana (25*1.55)? The hp sounds good to me at that ratio, so if I'm geared like loramin with soft capped wis and not-capped sta, the sta looks preferable to the wis.

Do I think my wisdom will be soft capped, then? The magelos I've seen in this thread make me think I'm likely to be sub 200 wisdom until I'm approaching the stamina hard cap, especially as an ogre. I made my shaman before I read this thread, but I'm feeling comfortable with my choice of 25 wis / 5 sta.

It's a more clear choice for ogre shaman since you have really high starting stamina. So yeah you'll be solid with 25 wis 5 sta cause you're starting at 132 sta with that combo and 102 wis. If you're gearing your shaman taking into account the sta v wis ratio comparison as you've illustrated, you'll be nearing hard cap of sta while you approach soft cap of wis, yes. Or you'll be nearing hard cap on sta and still possibly be short of wisdom soft cap depending on your access to high HP/Mana items that don't have a lot of either stat, but are a higher return regardless.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm writing as someone recieving the advice but applying it to my low level ogre shaman.

If I understand the formulas correctly, for sub 200 wisdom, a point of wisdom returns 4x as much mana as a point of stamina returns hp. Post 200 wisdom, wisdom returns 1.55x as much mana as sta returns hp.

So for earlier game I'm asking myself if I have a choice between a 100mana item and a 25hp item which do I wear? I think I take the 100 mana item -- equivalently, I'd rather have my starting points in wisdom than stamina when I'm not geared past the wisdom soft cap.

What about 25 hp vs 39 mana (25*1.55)? The hp sounds good to me at that ratio, so if I'm geared like loramin with soft capped wis and not-capped sta, the sta looks preferable to the wis.

Do I think my wisdom will be soft capped, then? The magelos I've seen in this thread make me think I'm likely to be sub 200 wisdom until I'm approaching the stamina hard cap, especially as an ogre. I made my shaman before I read this thread, but I'm feeling comfortable with my choice of 25 wis / 5 sta.

Gearing is a bit different from starting stats, since you can change your gear. Gearing also depends on your level.

For your first question about mana returns, let me repost a test I did:

I did another few tests with my Shaman, all under 200 WIS. Reducing 100 WIS got me 11.2 mana per WIS. Reducing my WIS by 10 got me 11.3 mana per WIS. Reducing my WIS by 5 got me 11.6 mana per WIS. Reducing my WIS by 2 got me 11.0 mana per WIS. It looks like the mana per WIS calculation fluctuates between 11 and 12 mana per WIS at level 60, depending on how the rounding works out. 11.6 was the highest I saw, but I could not test a +1, a +6, a +8, or a +9 WIS item to see what the results were. So I am assuming right now 11.6 is the highest it will go, and 11.0 is the lowest.

For Clerics and Shamans the formula for AVERAGE mana gained per WIS is:
1. 0.1883333 * WIS * LEVEL = Mana gained while under or at 200 WIS
2. (0.1883333 * WIS * LEVEL)/2 = Mana gained while over 200 WIS

If you want a bit more details on what I did, the thread I took this from is here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...na+calculation

For early game, especially 1-39, HP is generally better because the game isn't designed for low level players to scale their HP hard. This will help survival, and allow you to cannibalize more. Once you are past 40, where WIS is giving you a decent return, you can start to balance HP and Mana more, depending on what you need more. Individual HP items get less important as you level, because it is rare for an HP item to give you a large amount. So if you took off a single 65HP ring, it probably wouldn't make any difference at level 60, because if 65HP was the difference between life and death, the problem wasn't your gear.

[DMN]

that formula seems to be incredibly generous after the soft cap. Makes me wonder if the formula currently is not actually classic.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that formula seems to be incredibly generous after the soft cap. Makes me wonder if the formula currently is not actually classic.

Yeah that I do not know. All I know is this formula works for both Shamans and Clerics on P99. I tried it on my 60 Shaman and my 24 Cleric. The results were the same.

[eqravenprince]

Wisdom all day every day. If you hit the hard cap of 255, then start exchanging some +wis equipment for +sta equipment. Wisdom also helps a lot with skillups of various skills.

At level 50,
25 points of stamina is worth about 33 mana (from canni) and 63 hp.
25 points of wisdom below 200 is worth 250 mana
25 points of wisdom above 200 is worth 97 mana

At level 60,
25 points of stamina is worth about 39 mana (from canni) and 75 hp.
25 points of wisdom below 200 is worth 300 mana
25 points of wisdom above 200 is worth 117 mana

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At level 50,
25 points of wisdom below 200 is worth 250 mana
25 points of wisdom above 200 is worth 97 mana

At level 60,
25 points of wisdom below 200 is worth 300 mana
25 points of wisdom above 200 is worth 117 mana

That's a bit off. It's more like:

Level 50:
25 points of WIS below 200 = 235 mana
25 points of WIS above 200 = 117 mana

Level 60:
25 points of WIS below 200 = 280 mana
25 points of WIS above 200 = 140 mana

For Shamans and Clerics at least.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a bit off. It's more like:

Level 50:
25 points of WIS below 200 = 235 mana
25 points of WIS above 200 = 117 mana

Level 60:
25 points of WIS below 200 = 280 mana
25 points of WIS above 200 = 140 mana

For Shamans at least.

Are you saying the wiki is wrong? https://wiki.project1999.com/Mana#Mana_.28MANA.29

Says at level 60, each point of wisdom is worth 12 below 200 wisdom. So 12 x 25 = 300. And above 200, each point of wisdom is worth 4.66, so 4.66 x 25 = 116.5.

Says at level 50, each point of wisdom is worth 10 below 200 wisdom. So 10 x 25 = 250. And above 200, each point of wisdom is worth 3.88, so 3.88 x 25 = 97.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you saying the wiki is wrong? https://wiki.project1999.com/Mana#Mana_.28MANA.29

Says at level 60, each point of wisdom is worth 12 below 200 wisdom. So 12 x 25 = 300. And above 200, each point of wisdom is worth 4.66, so 4.66 x 25 = 116.5.

Says at level 50, each point of wisdom is worth 10 below 200 wisdom. So 10 x 25 = 250. And above 200, each point of wisdom is worth 3.88, so 3.88 x 25 = 97.

Yes, I believe it is, I did testing on my Level 60 Shaman and level 24 Cleric

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...na+calculation

You can see my results and the calculation I came up with.