How realistic is casual raiding?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DKP bloat / inflation is a real thing.

We should be nearing the end of the inevitable guild cycle. People get comfortable at the top, complacency sets in, then comes frustration (you are here)....slap a meta change on top and everything falls apart.

When they reform, get in early, raid as much as you can, and scoop up your most prized items on the cheap.

This is the way.

Agreed, getting in on a new reformed guild is a great way to get gear if you can raid a decent amount.

DKP bloat often doesn't effect a lot of items that go for cheap. They still go for cheap. Those are the items a casual is looking for. DKP bloat can effect the mid tier items that costs a few hundred DKP, but that is typically out of reach for casuals.

DKP bloat mostly effects the items you couldn't get anyway as a casual, like Vulak loot. The secret about DKP bloat is most people with thousands of DKP are saving the vast majority of it to dump on a super rare item like Tunare/Vulak loot. You will easily see someone dump 3000 DKP on a Vulak Robe, for example.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At this point I feel like it would be impossible to get anything now. Everyone in every guild probably has too much "DKP" to compete with as a brand new raider.

In this case, I wish there was some kind of participation trophy.

Yeah I mean I guess to be fair it depends on the guild's loot policy. I heard Kittens may be implementing some sort of policy requiring full DKP bids on certain tier loot...or something like that, I don't have all the details. That could be a good way to cut down on DKP bloat.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At this point I feel like it would be impossible to get anything now. Everyone in every guild probably has too much "DKP" to compete with as a brand new raider.

In this case, I wish there was some kind of participation trophy.

Also, just to play devil's advocate:

So yes, these long term members have lots of dkp. Why should you, as a new raider, be entitled to items over the veterans? They have put in far more time. Be an active raider, let the vets burn some of their points on stuff, and soon you'll be there bidding too.

Keep in mind DKP is a representation of 2 things: how much time/effort one has put in to raiding, and how good they are at getting on DKP event logs. Its the one glaring weakness of modern Discord-Bot-Run DKP systems...extremely easy to cheese / get your participation points for doing nothing but being in the zone when the logs are taken.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

extremely easy to cheese / get your participation points for doing nothing but being in the zone when the logs are taken.

Sounds like every DKP system in every guild in the history of EQ

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds like every DKP system in every guild in the history of EQ

In all fairness the guild officers/leaders are generally completely volunteer. So it isn't like you have a professional level system in place where they are triple checking documentation.

Generally speaking they do a great job all things considered. I personally haven't seen heavy abuse of the system. People are generally honest.

[Christopher]

Being new on P99 and reading through this thread. It does inspire hope that a new player can level up, join in on raiding and actually be able to obtain equipment.

On live it's such a flood of loot, upgrades don't feel as meaningful. Everything here has felt like an achievement in comparison.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Christopher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being new on P99 and reading through this thread. It does inspire hope that a new player can level up, join in on raiding and actually be able to obtain equipment.

On live it's such a flood of loot, upgrades don't feel as meaningful. Everything here has felt like an achievement in comparison.

That's the drug.

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by Christopher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being new on P99 and reading through this thread. It does inspire hope that a new player can level up, join in on raiding and actually be able to obtain equipment.

On live it's such a flood of loot, upgrades don't feel as meaningful. Everything here has felt like an achievement in comparison.

I'm honestly not super confident. If I started to level a character now, invest the months it takes to get to 50+ (with all the failure and struggle associated with that journey, and I don't have any cleric friends), and somehow get into a guild (another beast entirely, and not guaranteed based on experience), that it would be months of hard work before maybe possibly having a chance at earning a piece of loot. It just feels too damn late at this point. While I've been over here struggling for the last couple years, there are tons in this game that have been steadily consolidating their DKP in their respective raiding guilds.

It's always been a goal of mine to earn something that you can't just buy in the EC tunnel, but it doesn't seem realistic at this point. Everything I've managed to earn has been bought through porting money...and after this weekend that's all I seem to be destined to be, an uber driver. I'd still love to fight a dragon one day but all I get to do is port the cool kids to the real adventures.

I'm just feeling so depressed, broken and lonely at this point.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm honestly not super confident. If I started to level a character now, invest the months it takes to get to 50+ (with all the failure and struggle associated with that journey, and I don't have any cleric friends), and somehow get into a guild (another beast entirely, and not guaranteed based on experience), that it would be months of hard work before maybe possibly having a chance at earning a piece of loot. It just feels too damn late at this point. While I've been over here struggling for the last couple years, there are tons in this game that have been steadily consolidating their DKP in their respective raiding guilds.

It's always been a goal of mine to earn something that you can't just buy in the EC tunnel, but it doesn't seem realistic at this point. Everything I've managed to earn has been bought through porting money...and after this weekend that's all I seem to be destined to be, an uber driver. I'd still love to fight a dragon one day but all I get to do is port the cool kids to the real adventures.

I'm just feeling so depressed, broken and lonely at this point.

I mean this really depends on the guild. First, if you're not trying to join like the top guild on the server you can usually join pre-raiding level.

It's also entirely dependent on the guild's DKP rules and policies. For example, you could have a guild that requires full DKP (or a large portion of DKP) bids for certain tiers of items. That inevitably causes people to burn through large amounts of their DKP and now they're under you. It also depends on when a guild awards DKP and how much they award...each guild will have different policies on what encounters allow you to earn DKP, they will also all have the ability to earn DKP through leveling guild bots, tracking spawns, etc.

It's also going to depend on the rules for spending DKP on alts. I.e., if you're on an encounter with Character A, can you spend your DKP on a drop that your Character B could use? Many guilds will have rules around this rather than letting it be a total free for all where someone with massive amounts of DKP can outbid your main on everything just to gear like their 8th alt. So it reduces competition for certain drops somewhat.

Many encounters end up not being DKP at all for a lot of the drops. For example, at this stage in Velious many planar gear drops will end up being /random (granted, maybe some guilds don't do this but I think a lot do). So you don't even need to worry about DKP there.

A lot of the time guilds will also run things like Halls of Testing and Kael on a /random loot basis (I know Kittens does a /random HoT once a week and sometimes a DKP one that week also). So you can get Skyshrine and Thurg armor on your toons without needing to sink a ton of time into gaining DKP.

Overall point being, don't assume that it's just "I'm behind and will need a million hours to catch up and get enough DKP to get loot". Sure, if you're going for the absolute top tier loot and things like very rare epic quest drops then yeah you'll need a lot of time spent accruing DKP. But you can get some sweet stuff without a ton of DKP (or DKP at all) in many raiding guilds.