most underpowered class in game?

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or you could contribute to the thread and help people learn[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] That's probably the better option.

I put in my 2 cents; you even responded to me[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I think most of the information value of most forum discussions comes from people's initial statement of their positions and maybe a round or two of clarifying posts, and that the signal to noise ratio drops way off in the extended back and forth.

It can be enjoyable for it's own sake though -- I'm still reading the thread. These game balance/game mechanic arguments are part of the classic nostalgia for me.

[Troxx]

The real reason you don’t see a lot of high level mages trolling around p99 Norrath is directly due to the toxic raid scene. They end up parked as CoTH bots not because they’re not strong but because that’s what their guild requires of them to have any chance at competing. If raid scene worked differently and log in CoTH races weren’t necessary… you wouldn’t see them parked so often.

Mages are underpowered in no area of the game. Yeah they can’t do their dps role in certain raid zones/encounters but they have 2 critical raid jobs that no guild on p99 could compete without:

-CoTH
-mod rods

-They are strong soloers
-they are great in groups
-they have absolutely necessary raid jobs. Glamorous jobs? No, but necessary.

Underpowered my arse.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real reason you don’t see a lot of high level mages trolling around p99 Norrath is directly due to the toxic raid scene. They end up parked as CoTH bots not because they’re not strong but because that’s what their guild requires of them to have any chance at competing. If raid scene worked differently and log in CoTH races weren’t necessary… you wouldn’t see them parked so often.

Mages are underpowered in no area of the game. Yeah they can’t do their dps role in certain raid zones/encounters but they have 2 critical raid jobs that no guild on p99 could compete without:

-CoTH
-mod rods

-They are strong soloers
-they are great in groups
-they have absolutely necessary raid jobs. Glamorous jobs? No, but necessary.

Underpowered my arse.

People park their Mages voluntarily. No guild forces people to do it, and guilds level CoTH bots that can be shared by anyone. The reason why people end up making their Mages CoTH bots is because Mages aren't very good at high levels, so this typically ends up being the best thing for the character.

If Mages were stronger, people wouldn't use their level 60 Mages as CoTH bots as much.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

they have 2 critical raid jobs that no guild on p99 could compete without:

-CoTH
-mod rods

Don't forget they can quad-DA. With a competent mage, you can move your raid anywhere. This is essential in ToV and can be used in other raid zones as well. A heads up mage can save raids. Look at someone like -tani.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't forget they can quad-DA. With a competent mage, you can move your raid anywhere. This is essential in ToV and can be used in other raid zones as well.

Agreed, Mages are great in Raids. But the discussion is not focused on raiding.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed, Mages are great in Raids. But the discussion is not focused on raiding.

Lol if it is not focused on raiding then where do you get off putting them dead last? Because they can solo? Because their group dps is tippy top notch?

Or is it just because they can’t cc? Cause last I checked warriors, rogues and monks have zero cc also. My mage pet tanks more than well enough to get the job done and mages worth their salt will out-dps rogues on most content (high end raids notwithstanding).

Jesus man sometimes I think you like to type up PhD dissertations of bullshit just to hear yourself talk.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol if it is not focused on raiding then where do you get off putting them dead last? Because they can solo? Because their group dps is tippy top notch?

Or is it just because they can’t cc? Cause last I checked warriors, rogues and monks have zero cc also. My mage pet tanks more than well enough to get the job done and mages worth their salt will out-dps rogues on most content (high end raids notwithstanding).

Jesus man sometimes I think you like to type up PhD dissertations of bullshit just to hear yourself talk.

I have explained this already:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Indeed. This discussion will have a lot of hidden assumptions from everybody involved. My approach is to look at how the average player actually ends up playing P99. So the focus is mostly on Solo/Group, with a minor emphasis in raid. I don't assume the average player is simply leveling a class and then quitting it immediately.

Warriors get more emphasis on raiding specifically because most players make Warriors for raiding.

Clerics and Rogues get more emphasis on Grouping because most player do not solo with Clerics and Rogues.

Mages get dinged heavily in this scenario because they are good at solo, group, and raid. But as said earlier, they don't do anything especially well, with the exception of CoTH. So the average player ends up quitting the class or making them a CoTH bot, because they realize they need a different class to do non-CoTH tasks better.

It's a tough call between Rogue and Mage, but I would say Rogues can progress more than Mages in terms of improvement, which is why people play them more at level 60. If you do decide to raid a Rogue can improve their gear and DPS. A Mage is still just going to be CoTH botting. It might have been a different story if Mage Epic was easy to get. In that case I might rate Rogues lower, since Mage Epic is a DPS improvement.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't forget they can quad-DA. With a competent mage, you can move your raid anywhere.

My inner newb is about to blossom …
Cut me some slack it has been years …

Remind me about this quad DA thing?

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My inner newb is about to blossom …
Cut me some slack it has been years …

Remind me about this quad DA thing?

As Jimjam suggested casters can do Earring of the Frozen Skull -> DA Idol for a double DA, and mages can do Frozen Skull -> Sky ring -> Sky ring (recharged) -> Idol for a quad DA.

This leads to some really cool "we wouldn't have won that dragon without da trains" moments in ToV.

[7thGate]

That reminds me of something I wanted to test, I think it might be viable to have a mage solo ramp tank anything with corpsed box of the voids....though I guess I don't remember if you can loot a body while DA. I think so though? Need to test that sometime.