most underpowered class in game?

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We need a poll for Paladin/Ranger/Wizard as the weakest.

The poor souls who said Mage or Rogue (!!) are automatically discounted.

Druid is understandable to say when looking at them when they can't Charm, but there are plenty of good places to animal charm, so it's not right to say a character that can do massive DPS, heal, teleport, sow/wolf, snare/root/harmony, tracking, and provide a stackable mana buff (at 60) deserves to be in the very bottom.

Warrior is understandable when looking at them outside of raids and without good gear, but even then consider a fresh classic era server for example. They have the benefit of berserk mode, which means they are better DPS than a similarly geared Pally/Ranger, and they have an exp bonus, whereas those other two have a huge exp penalty. So the Warrior is going to level faster and be in better position to get the gear upgrades, which puts them ahead. Pre-Kunark era without disciplines Warriors are still relevant for raiding too, because they have an inherent magic resist boost (very important for stopping as many Fears as possible from Dragons/Gods) and having the highest HP is obviously beneficial.

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It's easiest to narrow the battle down to Ranger and Paladin:

pre-Kunark: Ranger has a bit better itemization on the whole. Paladin during the mid levels with Ghoulbane is better and at the end of this era with the first epic they get a boost, otherwise Rangers are doing much better DPS by dual wielding SSOY or raid drops. Skillset it's basically Snare, Harmony, Tracking vs Lull and some better healing. Snare was especially useful in actual classic because targets would often run away full speed, so I give Ranger the edge.

Kunark: Paladin gains the edge here because of being able to tank significantly better, allowing them to fulfill a more worthwhile function than the Ranger, who as a DPS class are weak during this era. Gaining 90% rez is also a real toolkit boost for the Pally, whereas Rangers don't get anything new here (unless we are counting their Epic having a slow proc).

Velious: I give Ranger the advantage until the Two-hander weapon bonus gets modified, as they can provide much better DPS + also have Weaponshield, which are more valuable things than the Pally HP buff. After the Two-hander damage gets changed, then I would put them pretty much equal overall, Pally being better for general groups, but Ranger being a bit more of an asset overall for raiding. Ranger wins the era as a whole since the two-hander damage change isn't until late Velious.

So overall, Paladin is the weakest!

If we are talking end of Velious era though (aka, where Blue server lives forever), then Wizard is my vote for the worst class, especially since you can't meditate while casting on Blue. Just...ugh. Pathetic DPS for a class that should at the very least be able to burn a target down fast, but they are also incapable of that in this era.

Well if you are going to make it a poll based on your choices, then put zero emphasis on soloing, barely any emphasis on grouping 1-50 game. Warrior and Rogue are bottom of soloing and most groups. I'd take a Paladin or Ranger over Warrior and Rogue for any group 1-50. Obviously Paladin and Ranger are better soloers than Warrior and Rogue. Wizard, yeah, they are the worst group class.

[Castle2.0]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We need a poll for Paladin/Ranger/Wizard as the weakest.

The poor souls who said Mage or Rogue (!!) are automatically discounted.

Druid is understandable to say when looking at them when they can't Charm, but there are plenty of good places to animal charm, so it's not right to say a character that can do massive DPS, heal, teleport, sow/wolf, snare/root/harmony, tracking, and provide a stackable mana buff (at 60) deserves to be in the very bottom.

Warrior is understandable when looking at them outside of raids and without good gear, but even then consider a fresh classic era server for example. They have the benefit of berserk mode, which means they are better DPS than a similarly geared Pally/Ranger, and they have an exp bonus, whereas those other two have a huge exp penalty. So the Warrior is going to level faster and be in better position to get the gear upgrades, which puts them ahead. Pre-Kunark era without disciplines Warriors are still relevant for raiding too, because they have an inherent magic resist boost (very important for stopping as many Fears as possible from Dragons/Gods) and having the highest HP is obviously beneficial.

---

It's easiest to narrow the battle down to Ranger and Paladin:

pre-Kunark: Ranger has a bit better itemization on the whole. Paladin during the mid levels with Ghoulbane is better and at the end of this era with the first epic they get a boost, otherwise Rangers are doing much better DPS by dual wielding SSOY or raid drops. Skillset it's basically Snare, Harmony, Tracking vs Lull and some better healing. Snare was especially useful in actual classic because targets would often run away full speed, so I give Ranger the edge.

Kunark: Paladin gains the edge here because of being able to tank significantly better, allowing them to fulfill a more worthwhile function than the Ranger, who as a DPS class are weak during this era. Gaining 90% rez is also a real toolkit boost for the Pally, whereas Rangers don't get anything new here (unless we are counting their Epic having a slow proc).

Velious: I give Ranger the advantage until the Two-hander weapon bonus gets modified, as they can provide much better DPS + also have Weaponshield, which are more valuable things than the Pally HP buff. After the Two-hander damage gets changed, then I would put them pretty much equal overall, Pally being better for general groups, but Ranger being a bit more of an asset overall for raiding. Ranger wins the era as a whole since the two-hander damage change isn't until late Velious.

So overall, Paladin is the weakest!

If we are talking end of Velious era though (aka, where Blue server lives forever), then Wizard is my vote for the worst class, especially since you can't meditate while casting on Blue. Just...ugh. Pathetic DPS for a class that should at the very least be able to burn a target down fast, but they are also incapable of that in this era.

Wizard can gate to Rivervale, manadance to full quickly, then port out to keep killing. This makes them incredibly powerful.

Manadance!

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizard can gate to Rivervale, manadance to full quickly, then port out to keep killing. This makes them incredibly powerful.

Not practical. That's a bad bind spot and it's generally going to take too long to port back and run to the spot where you were hunting.

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizards are great at anything but group xp content.

No. They are inferior to melee DPS for Velious raiding (very inferior against targets that Banes don't work on), they generally can't solo farm any good items and are a bad duo partner, and for group farming where it's all about churning through NPC's they have the exact same problem as xp groups.

With the nerf to cash drops given by Seafuries, Wizards are especially weak at doing any kind of relevant farming. And this whole game basically just comes down to farming.

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're taking raiding into account without weighing LoH, soulfires, and Divine Strength?

Call of the Predator to buff all the melees on the raid is more valuable than the Pally HP buff and LoH combined. Killing faster means taking less damage. Ranger additionally has Weaponshield discipline on top of that. Soulfire is not something that has lasting value. It's not classic to be using that item as frequently as it saw play on p99. It's supposed to just be a rare case usage, maybe for one encounter the Pally can save the fight, but the expectation should be that it will be awhile before they pick up another Soulfire to use again.

Originally Posted by Ghost of Starman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

SK has to be the biggest loser here as they bring nothing unique to a raid

AC debuff = DPS increase for the raid. Doesn't work on all targets, and I don't know the exact math on this (it also largely depends on how many melee you have in total), but possibly an SK for those targets could edge out the amount of DPS that you would get from having another Rogue on the raid instead.

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd take a Paladin or Ranger over Warrior and Rogue for any group 1-50.

Then you will likely be leveling slower.

[TripSin]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And this whole game basically just comes down to farming.

For you, sure, but that isn't true for everyone. Some people actual take their time with the game and enjoy the experience rather than just trying to min max and optimize everything and rushing XP gain as fast as they can. Some people, as hard as it might be for you to imagine, don't care much about pixels that give them BIS stats or whatever because that's not important to them.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by TripSin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some people actual take their time with the game and enjoy the experience rather than just trying to min max and optimize everything and rushing XP gain as fast as they can. Some people, as hard as it might be for you to imagine, don't care much about pixels that give them BIS stats or whatever because that's not important to them.

Sure, but that's not relevant to a discussion about power level of classes.

[Castle2.0]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not practical. That's a bad bind spot and it's generally going to take too long to port back and run to the spot where you were hunting.

I am talking about XPing here.

If you can go from OOM to FM in just a few minutes, you intentionally hunt near a port in an outdoor zone quad kiting.

[Fammaden]

You're taking raiding into account without weighing LoH, soulfires, and Divine Strength?

By all your metrics you should be ranking Shadow Knight lower than ranger and paladin by a long shot.

[Ghost of Starman]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're taking raiding into account without weighing LoH, soulfires, and Divine Strength?

By all your metrics you should be ranking Shadow Knight lower than ranger and paladin by a long shot.

Yup, SK has to be the biggest loser here as they bring nothing unique to a raid, Paladins are just as good raid tanks (if not better due to emergency LOH / self heals / Soulfire charges, etc). When properly geared out and with high CHA for lulls pallys can do just about everything a SK can with added benefits, even in groups.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Starman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup, SK has to be the biggest loser here as they bring nothing unique to a raid, Paladins are just as good raid tanks (if not better due to emergency LOH / self heals / Soulfire charges, etc). When properly geared out and with high CHA for lulls pallys can do just about everything a SK can with added benefits, even in groups.

In what world have you never had an SK on your pull team?

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Starman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup, SK has to be the biggest loser here as they bring nothing unique to a raid, Paladins are just as good raid tanks (if not better due to emergency LOH / self heals / Soulfire charges, etc). When properly geared out and with high CHA for lulls pallys can do just about everything a SK can with added benefits, even in groups.

Sk's are the best pet wranglers for a few encounters.
Tunare for instance, less dead enchanters with a quality pet wrangler.

Wizards are great at anything but group xp content.