most underpowered class in game?

[Vaarsuvius]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe the topic is specific to P99. Mages are at their best when the player base has little knowledge of the game. That is why they were much stronger on live during the classic era. On P99, where everybody knows everything, a Mage is simply a worse Necromancer in basically every regard. The exceptions being COTH and summoned Dispel Staff. Twitch is better than Mod Rods too.

Don't forget temporary 10 slot bags and muzzles for necro & enchanter pets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vaarsuvius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't forget temporary 10 slot bags and muzzles for necro & enchanter pets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't run necro pets in raids for DPS, and generally I don't see muzzles go on charmed pets in raids either. In solo/group situations I would take Necro utility over muzzle any day.

Temp bags are cool, but a bit too dangerous IMO.

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't run necro pets in raids for DPS, and generally I don't see muzzles go on charmed pets in raids either. In solo/group situations I would take Necro utility over muzzle any day.

Temp bags are cool, but a bit too dangerous IMO.

Masks go on pets for tuna a lot, and sometimes on the dogs for vindi. About it for that utility

[Tunabros]

incoming deathssilkymist's rants

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Tunabros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

incoming deathssilkymist's rants

Incoming silly Tuna comments that have nothing to do with the topic[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jimjam]

People overestimate the importance of harmony to rangers in group. It’s pretty easy to pull with root, root a second, snare one of the rooted and run the remaining mob to camp, snaring the fourth if there is one.

This creates a steady stream of mobs which arrive in camp at a fair pace with a good chunk hate already on a tank. It essentially creates a series of single pulls which pull them selfs allowing the ranger to spend more time in camp DPSing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People overestimate the importance of harmony to rangers in group. It’s pretty easy to pull with root, root a second, snare one of the rooted and run the remaining mob to camp, snaring the fourth if there is one.

This creates a steady stream of mobs which arrive in camp at a fair pace with a good chunk hate already on a tank. It essentially creates a series of single pulls which pull them selfs allowing the ranger to spend more time in camp DPSing.

The point of this thread isn't to claim any class is unplayable, and I think a lot of people are taking it that way. I understand why, since everybody has a favorite class.

All classes are playable on P99 today, and each class can do some pretty cool stuff when you become adept at playing them. The point of this thread is simply to determine which class is the most underpowered. That doesn't mean bad/unplayable, it just means worse compared to other classes.

The problem with Ranger is some of their best spells are outdoor only, and they were designed to be played outdoors. This means on average a Shadowknight/Paladin is going to be more useful in a group, because they don't have that restriction. This is especially true considering a lot of higher traffic zones are indoors.

That doesn't mean Rangers can't do well in Dungeons, it just means they have a inherit disadvantage that they can't get around.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...This means on average...

Now there's a word that makes for a possibly interesting tangent: average.

Harmony doesn't work indoors. It's by design kind of overpowered for split pulling outdoors. On average that limitation should then mean it's a good character ability overall since the times it's OP should average out the times it's unavailable. In actual practice not many groups are going to invite a ranger in lower guk due to his harmony being great outside so maybe we need the mode instead of the mean. We see some of this sort of thing with some other classes as well, like paladins and clerics with their anti-undead utility.

As you say, it's a vast game and about everyone has a niche someplace. Worst overall definitely doesn't equate to useless either in theory or in practice.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now there's a word that makes for a possibly interesting tangent: average.

Harmony doesn't work indoors. It's by design kind of overpowered for split pulling outdoors. On average that limitation should then mean it's a good character ability overall since the times it's OP should average out the times it's unavailable. In actual practice not many groups are going to invite a ranger in lower guk due to his harmony being great outside so maybe we need the mode instead of the mean. We see some of this sort of thing with some other classes as well, like paladins and clerics with their anti-undead utility.

As you say, it's a vast game and about everyone has a niche someplace. Worst overall definitely doesn't equate to useless either in theory or in practice.

Danth

The problem is simply that the distribution of good outdoor zones to good indoor zones is skewed heavily in favor of indoor zones. So while yes we definitely need Rangers/Druids to harmony some monsters, in the main a Paladin is going to be a lot more useful on average, due to having a general lull. A Paladin's anti-undead capabilities aren't actually that great. Their power comes from having a general lull on par with an Enchanter's. And Shadowknights have a close equivalent, which is FD pulling. Rangers sadly cannot use their lull in the majority of popular zones, which means they are below average, even after considering Harmony's superiority in the cases it is used. It's the same issue with Magicians. COTH is an amazing ability. Sadly it just isn't used enough to make Mages a great class on P99.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is simply that the distribution of good outdoor zones to good indoor zones is skewed heavily in favor of indoor zones.

It is, albeit the power of those types of spells tends to make those classes a bit self-selecting in terms of hanging out more where those spells work so that counter-skews the average some. Same as how on my Paladin I much favored hanging out in lower guk than sol-B because it's so much more convenient getting around with invis to undead than with calm.

As for Call of the Hero, it's so good I call it a character-killer: A straight majority of level 55+ magicians I know end up being parked in strategic locations due to that spell, no longer (or seldom) used for regular gameplay. If there's such a thing as a too-strong ability, that must be exhibit "A" because few other abilities kill characters in that manner.

Danth