Sleeper being awoken tonight (April 13th)

[Goldknyght]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is wrong. Trains were not purposely programmed, they are an unintended consequence of the game mechanics. This is why in the PnP and on the live servers they will punish players from doing it. They cannot easily prevent trains via clever programming, so they have to resort to GM intervention instead.

Sleeper, on the other hand, was purposely programmed to be awoken and despawn the Warders. There is nothing in the PnP that prevents it from happening, and there is nothing unintended happening here. It isn't like Warders despawning is a bug. That is the difference.

Everquest was purposely programmed to move past this event also. Not locked in this timeline. This event was a neat way to have the community decide when it happens then move on to the next expansion. When the p99 team wanted to lock this game in classic. Waking the sleeper actually is a D*** move. How aren't you grasping this concept?

And reading the Play nice policy, this actually violates those rules. We can no longer hunt the warders. They no longer spawn.

[Goldknyght]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So is the consensus basically: nobody can ever wake the sleeper, and anyone who ever does is a dick? Cause that hardly seems fair to whichever guild put in the time and effort to do it. Even if it was some conglomeration of multiple guilds who did it, then they'd be dicks? Again, almost nothing changes, and if having specific warder items that no longer drop was that important to somebody that this is an affront to their personhood, why didn't they app to ST? We all play this game, we all understand the mentality, I think it's actually a bit high and mighty of people to pretend they would *never* do the same thing, if they had put in all that time and effort and were in the same position as ST was.

in essence yes, there is a post on the offical forums or reddit cant remember of a guy talking about his guild doing it back in the day and said it took months before people didnt look down on his guild because it was a D*** move.

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by Goldknyght [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in essence yes, there is a post on the offical forums or reddit cant remember of a guy talking about his guild doing it back in the day and said it took months before people didnt look down on his guild because it was a D*** move.

Okay well I think the issue is just whether or not it's a dick move. I don't think it is inherently a dick move at all, since it *is* a part of the game. Plus, nearly everyone who plays on this server knows that going in. So I definitely think it's wrong to be surprised this happened, but I also think it's wrong to be pissed at ST for doing it. Very few items were removed from the game, and if getting those items was truly important to somebody there's this guild called seal team who everyone knew was going to do this, and you're free to apply to their guild just like any other guild. Or, you're free to continue to compete against them and all other guilds for the other 99.9% of desirable targets that are still there for the killing.

I am not in seal team, there are lots of classic-velious era encounters I've never even seen, and this does not bother me at all. I'd just encourage people to think about why they play this game sometimes. I mean I get it, it's a bummer, but you've gotta look at it from their perspective. Are they gonna spend 3 years positioning themselves to be able to do this, only to let somebody else do it instead? Of course not. If you want to compete for warders you have to like... compete. Meaning get keyed. If the top guild is already there and is just delaying waking the sleeper out of charity, is it really gonna feel that glorious to get some piece of loot? No, at least not for me it wouldn't.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Lol that is not a gun to their head. They have no obligation to follow their mission statement, and have enacted custom changes that go against this goal. Not a very good attempt here.

[Skarne]

All Eli is trying to say is that the comparison of manastone and waking the sleeper are completely different due to the player choice aspect regarding waking the sleeper.

The manastone is a set timeline removal.

The sleeper requires player choice which is a trigger, not a timer.

I agree with Eli on this. It’s a silly argument anyway and I’m surprised it’s gone on for 15 pages.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Skarne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All Eli is trying to say is that the comparison of manastone and waking the sleeper are completely different due to the player choice aspect regarding waking the sleeper.

The manastone is a set timeline removal.

The sleeper requires player choice which is a trigger, not a timer.

I agree with Eli on this. It’s a silly argument anyway and I’m surprised it’s gone on for 15 pages.

I think the problem is people are getting too hung up on the "player choice" thing. In video games there typically aren't a ton of things to do, as video games are heavily restrictive systems. You can only do what has been programmed, or what can be done unexpectedly via exploit.

In a game of limited choices, something as cool as waking the Sleeper is something most players wouldn't ignore. So while yes, it is a "choice", it is a choice that is heavily weighted psychologically to happen. And we have 20 years of data to back this up, since the Sleeper has been awoken on most servers. I am really confused as to why people think it is much of a choice when 20 years of data prove most people end up doing the same thing. Everything you do in life is a choice, but there are different degrees to where having the choice actually matters. Sleeper is going to be awoken, because it is just too tempting.

That is why I consider it a timer, because realistically speaking I would never expect a P99 server to keep Sleeper sleeping, and so far all of the data backs this up. It is not a question of if, but when.

[Skarne]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the problem is people are getting too hung up on the "player choice" thing. In video games there typically aren't a ton of things to do, as video games are heavily restrictive systems. You can only do what has been programmed, or what can be done unexpectedly via exploit.

In a game of limited choices, something as cool as waking the Sleeper is something most players wouldn't ignore. So while yes, it is a "choice", it is a choice that is heavily weighted psychologically to happen. And we have 20 years of data to back this up, since the Sleeper has been awoken on most servers. I am really confused as to why people think it is much of a choice when 20 years of data prove most people end up doing the same thing. Everything you do in life is a choice, but there are different degrees to where having the choice actually matters. Sleeper is going to be awoken, because it is just too tempting.

That is why I consider it a timer, because realistically speaking I would never expect a P99 server to keep Sleeper sleeping, and so far all of the data backs this up. It is not a question of if, but when.

Ok so if it’s a timer you should be able to predict with accuracy when the sleeper will wake up on the next iteration of p99 <insert color>

If you can’t do that accurately, and I can predict exactly when the manastones cease to drop, how is that a decent comparison?

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Skarne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok so if it’s a timer you should be able to predict with accuracy when the sleeper will wake up on the next iteration of p99 <insert color>

If you can’t do that accurately, and I can predict exactly when the manastones cease to drop, how is that a decent comparison?

More like a jack in the box. *boing* Surprise, there are dicks on the server.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Skarne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok so if it’s a timer you should be able to predict with accuracy when the sleeper will wake up on the next iteration of p99 <insert color>

If you can’t do that accurately, and I can predict exactly when the manastones cease to drop, how is that a decent comparison?

It's the equivalent of a randomized timer. The dev's for fun could make the Manastone timer a random number between 10 days and 50 days, and players would have to figure out when it happens. That is still a timer, you simply don't know when it ends. It sounds like you have falsely assumed that everybody must always know the time left on a timer. Timers can be hidden.

Sleeper is the same way, it is a timer by vote. Every day that players don't kill Sleeper, they are voting to extend the timer. But since we can't predict the future, it is somewhat random as to when it occurs.

However, as I stated before, every ST key that drops increases the probability of Sleeper spawning, either by player dispute or by accident. Realistically speaking the chance of waking Sleeper is extremely high once you have like 200 unique keyed players.

[Skarne]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's the equivalent of a randomized timer. The dev's for fun could make the Manastone timer a random number between 10 days and 50 days, and players would have to figure out when it happens.

Sleeper is the same way, it is a timer by vote. Every day that players don't kill Sleeper, they are voting to extend the timer. But since we can't predict the future, it is somewhat random as to when it occurs.

However, as I stated before, every ST key that drops increases the probability of Sleeper spawning, either by player dispute or by accident. Realistically speaking the chance of waking Sleeper is extremely high once you have like 200 unique keyed players.

I agree with your point above but still disagree the two are a decent comparison. Fair enough though it’s okay to disagree and debate unless you’re today’s Republican Party.