Sleeper being awoken tonight (April 13th)

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is nonsensical. I am not claiming the P99 dev's created Manastone from a game design perspective. You don't understand how video game emulators work if this isn't a troll. This conversation is going to be hard to continue if you are really starting from zero knowledge of video game creation and video game emulators.

Why can't you just admit Sleeper isn't the same thing as Manastone? lol

They are not the same thing. Just accept it.

If you want to say they intended the event to be triggered. Great. No disagreement. Intent is one thing. Action is another. Players are still in control. Players can all agree not to trigger the event. Choice. It was left in the players hands to do with what they will.

If there was a specific date in Live History where Devs and Gms triggered this event, you'd be right. P99 Devs would follow that history. Alas ... it's not so.

Choice is what separates the two. It's that simple. No long drawn out posts from you are necessary. You want to drag this out because you can't admit your original comparison was wrong.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 had to create custom code and rebuild the Everquest database to get the game working. P99 is part original Everquest code (in the case of the client), and part custom code/data (in the case of the database and server code).

The P99 Dev's could decide whether or not to put in Manastone. It isn't like they were forced to, they can do whatever they want. They could make P99 a completely custom server that has no resemblance to the original Everquest if they wanted. They decided to put Manastone in and have it be removed at a specific time, to simulate it getting nerfed.

It's called "Project 1999" for a reason. It's not called "Project Whatever" or "Project Pick And Choose"

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On P99 Manastone is specifically designed to be removed, it is not organically removed due to balance issues being discovered that no one expected. People have known Manastone was overpowered for 20 years now lol.

Manastone on P99 is made available to mimic Everquest Live History. Manastone was not designed by the ya know, the people that actually designed it, to be removed. It was removed because of obvious imbalance issues that were not seen at it's original conception. If the P99 devs were concerned about it's imbalance they would never have allowed it on the server to begin with.

They are strictly following history however. Alas ..

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can no longer get manastone, can no longer get warder loot. Seems similar enough to me.

Devs remove manastone as part of an official time line. They are merely following the same foot steps of the original development team.

Players either leave sleeper up or trigger the event

Not similar. Nice try though.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why can't you just admit Sleeper isn't the same thing as Manastone? lol

They are not the same thing. Just accept it.

If you want to say they intended the event to be triggered. Great. No disagreement. Intent is one thing. Action is another. Players are still in control. Players can all agree not to trigger the event. Choice. It was left in the players hands to do with what they will.

If there was a specific date in Live History where Devs and Gms triggered this event, you'd be right. P99 Devs would follow that history. Alas ... it's not so.

Choice is what separates the two. It's that simple. No long drawn out posts from you are necessary. You want to drag this out because you can't admit your original comparison was wrong.



It's called "Project 1999" for a reason. It's not called "Project Whatever" or "Project Pick And Choose"



Manastone on P99 is made available to mimic Everquest Live History. Manastone was not designed by the ya know, the people that actually designed it, to be removed. It was removed because of obvious imbalance issues that were not seen at it's original conception. If the P99 devs were concerned about it's imbalance they would never have allowed it on the server to begin with.

They are strictly following history however. Alas ..



Devs remove manastone as part of an official time line. They are merely following the same foot steps of the original development team.

Players either leave sleeper up or trigger the event

Not similar. Nice try though.

This is just a lot of nonsense. You can disagree with me, but you haven't given any evidence to disprove my points except you don't like what I have to say.

P99 is not the same thing as the live Everquest servers, either now, or in the past. It is a customized imitation, with no requirement to follow live history. There are plenty of custom changes on P99 already. You are trying to blur the lines between Everquest live back in 1999-2002 and P99. They are two separate things, even if you don't want to admit it.

It is a fact that on P99, Manastone is designed to be removed after a fixed time. It is specifically coded to do so.

It is a fact that on P99, Sleeper is designed to be awoken. It is specifically coded to do so.

It is a fact that players enjoy waking the Sleeper, as it is the statistically common outcome across all servers, both live and on P99.

It is a fact that pixel removal denies pixels regardless of who does it. If you are angry at one party for doing it, you must also be angry at any other party who does it. Otherwise you are just using this as a smokescreen to go after the specific party you don't like.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Players are still in control.

A very small percentage of players are in control. Corrected for you.

[Jibartik]

its a shame sleeper flying around didn't also auto flag everyone for PVP so it'd be like full blown norrathian apocalypses with people eating each other in the panic.

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[Skarne]

Back when velious was live I always pictured the sleeper rampaging from ST to Rivervale and everywhere in between. I was disappointed to read that was never the case.

[Tunabros]

you guys just dont stop, huh?

[Ooloo]

So is the consensus basically: nobody can ever wake the sleeper, and anyone who ever does is a dick? Cause that hardly seems fair to whichever guild put in the time and effort to do it. Even if it was some conglomeration of multiple guilds who did it, then they'd be dicks? Again, almost nothing changes, and if having specific warder items that no longer drop was that important to somebody that this is an affront to their personhood, why didn't they app to ST? We all play this game, we all understand the mentality, I think it's actually a bit high and mighty of people to pretend they would *never* do the same thing, if they had put in all that time and effort and were in the same position as ST was.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So is the consensus basically: nobody can ever wake the sleeper, and anyone who ever does is a dick? Cause that hardly seems fair to whichever guild put in the time and effort to do it. Even if it was some conglomeration of multiple guilds who did it, then they'd be dicks? Again, almost nothing changes, and if having specific warder items that no longer drop was that important to somebody that this is an affront to their personhood, why didn't they app to ST? We all play this game, we all understand the mentality, I think it's actually a bit high and mighty of people to pretend you would *never* do the same thing, if you had put in all that time and effort.

Basically that is what the other side is trying to argue, yes. As you point out, it is a silly argument.

[Goldknyght]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basically that is what the other side is trying to argue, yes. As you point out, it is a silly argument.

No one is arguing that you can or cant wake the sleeper. The argument was that it was a D*** move and its not the same as the manastone removal. Devs programmed the player base to be able to train and steal kills, with your logic no action should be taken. But since kill stealing and training affects more people it can get you suspended or banned vs this where it only affects the few that can do it. So its not considered toxic in devs mind. But trust me EVERY TIME SOMEONE DOES THIS, threads like this one pop up every time. EVERYTIME. So its obviously a problem just like kill stealing or training and should be regulated similar.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goldknyght [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one is arguing that you can or cant wake the sleeper. The argument was that it was a D*** move and its not the same as the manastone removal. Devs programmed the player base to be able to train and steal kills, with your logic no action should be taken. But since kill stealing and training affects more people it can get you suspended or banned vs this where it only affects the few that can do it. So its not considered toxic in devs mind. But trust me EVERY TIME SOMEONE DOES THIS, threads like this one pop up every time. EVERYTIME. So its obviously a problem just like kill stealing or training and should be regulated similar.

This is wrong. Trains were not purposely programmed, they are an unintended consequence of the game mechanics. This is why in the PnP and on the live servers they will punish players from doing it. They cannot easily prevent trains via clever programming, so they have to resort to GM intervention instead.

Sleeper, on the other hand, was purposely programmed to be awoken and despawn the Warders. There is nothing in the PnP that prevents it from happening, and there is nothing unintended happening here. It isn't like Warders despawning is a bug. That is the difference.