Green 2.0 advice

[Zill]

The thing about Classic EQ is that back when Classic was classic, there weren’t intense zealot neck-beards that had spent 20 years figuring out how to minmax the game in every imaginable aspect. When people complain that p1999 kinda sucks in some ways because of those neck-beards, it tends to be the neck-beards telling them “well that’s just Classic EQ!”

I mean, it would be Classic EQ without so many poop-sockers ruining the experience. All the people complaining for a Green 2.0 are just poop-sockers that weren’t able to get Manastones on green and want to try again.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Videri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The round-the-clock camping, the drama and rage, the petitioning, and the /list torture was all for nothing.

[cd288]

Also does anyone think this guy types a LOT like DSM? Lol

[PabloEdvardo]

These camps were camped by 10-20 people 24/7 from the moment it was possible to camp them until the moment they were removed from the game.

That's not even close to true. Manastone, Jboots, Rubi BP, and Guise all had relatively low numbers for the first month or two.

It wasn't until after the Teal and Green merge, and the month prior to the nerf, at which point the situation you're describing occurred.

I did all of those list camps prior to the merge.

Fear and Hate were rotated between guilds in 8-hour blocks, with each guild owning 1-3 blocks. A guild would fully clear the Plane of Fear during each of their eight-hour blocks in order to fully utilize their slot and get as much loot as they can.

Also not true. Guilds were competing for FTE on spawns. Guilds showed up when mobs were respawning and if they got FTE they would OOC the message. It was highly competitive.

In addition, next launch, mobs will have an 8-16 hour window, instead of just 8 hours, which will change this dynamic greatly.

Expect clerics and shamans wearing Lustrous Russet Boots, rogues wearing Lustrous Russet Breastplate, bards wearing Lustrous Russet Bracer, and more.

The hate armor is supposed to drop in Plane of Fear until Hate is added when it's moved there. Green did not implement this properly. As far as who will wear what, everyone will be seeking out LR armor regardless of class. The bracer and gauntlets are the most sought after items and hardest to acquire.

Fear and Hate were rotated between guilds in 8-hour blocks, with each guild owning 1-3 blocks. A guild would fully clear the Plane of Hate during each of their eight-hour blocks in order to fully utilize their slot and get as much loot as they can. The level cap is still 50, so it’s quite difficult. Expect to wipe sometimes.

Again, not entirely true. Not all guilds participated in the UN agreements, some went up and competed for FTE on spawns. It also wasn't purely an 8 hour block rotation, most guilds got a day or two including multiple blocks.

Supposedly Seal Team would do Plane of Sky using almost exclusively mages

Correct. If you want to farm PoS in classic, you need a mage army with lvl49 air pets. This also means that "Words of Incarceration" will be in extremely high demand. You can farm them off things like the Imps in SolB near Efreeti.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by PabloEdvardo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It wasn't until after the Teal and Green merge, and the month prior to the nerf, at which point the situation you're describing occurred.

This was not true, for the manastone camp on Teal at least. That camp had a full list (with maybe an average of five people on it) for months prior to the merge. I know because I tried (and sadly failed) to get one.

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also does anyone think this guy types a LOT like DSM? Lol

He does strongly resemble DSM.

[PabloEdvardo]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This was not true, for the manastone camp on Teal at least. That camp had a full list (with maybe an average of five people on it) for months prior to the merge. I know because I tried (and sadly failed) to get one.



He does strongly resemble DSM.

It was true on Green

Edit: In general, I agree with the sentiments in this thread that something needs to be done about p99 raiding and content progression.

Again and again we've been told that this isn't about creating a 1:1 forensic reproduction of classic everquest, but that some non-classic changes are because they want the game to give the classic experience when playing. Meaning, they want it to feel like you're playing in 1999 again.

I did NToV on Live across two servers, two "uber" guilds, and both of them did not pull the dragons. We would move them slightly within their lairs or pull them maybe down a hallway, but we weren't doing entrance pulls and kiteouts and trains. Rooting the dragons actually does bring the experience closer to what it was like on live. This is one example of how they've used non-classic changes to produce a classic experience.

So I also believe they need to strongly reconsider things like having multiple servers or raid content spawn rates or instancing. The number and intensity of raid guilds on these servers is unlike the majority of the experiences that players had on live. On live each server had raiding guilds which stuck to "their lane", and because new content was always coming out (new expansions, progression) rather than guilds competing for the top content, they progressed their members along the content and geared them up along the way. Once a player was geared through previous content in one guild, they would often leave and join the next guild up.

We see this a little bit in p99 with how guilds will be doing fear/hate in kunark while other guilds are chasing kunark dragons and VP, but once velious is reached and progression ends, the natural stratification of the guilds goes away completely.

In addition, p99 is extremely top-heavy when left to one server. Since 2-3 guilds on p99 all end up targeting the same "tier" of content, yet the spawn rates of the monsters is unaffected (and arguably even worse due to variances), players end up with a non-classic experience when it comes to loot availability. If on a Live server you only had maybe 100-150 players in an uber guild needing to be equipped on their mains, on p99 players often have 2 or more raiding level characters they regularly use, meaning with multiple guilds you might have 600-800 characters competing for the same drop availability.

Unlike Live when a guild would get every single spawn of specific bosses until they chose to progress past it, with competition on p99 guilds often get only a percentage of those kills.

All of this compounds into extremely low average loot availability for most players, and because progression dies at Velious, the top guilds never stop wanting Velious loot, and continue to farm it for years for their new members and alts, meaning other guilds are actually still actively prevented from progressing naturally to those bosses like they were in classic and kunark.

tl;dr is that more non-classic changes could do a lot to restore the classic raid experience on p99 instead of this completely non-classic competitive system with a fraction of the loot available per member

ideas like: get rid of variance, quadruple the spawn rate, add automated random weekly quakes, allow guild+character based instancing with lockouts, increase the number of items dropped per table, have multiple servers running the same timeline so you only have one uber guild per server, etc.

what we have today is NOT a classic experience, and this comes from someone who did progression raiding on live across multiple guilds, on two servers, and who also raided Green with a top guild, doing all the content

[Calmethar]

Originally Posted by PabloEdvardo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ideas like: get rid of variance, quadruple the spawn rate, add automated random weekly quakes, allow guild+character based instancing with lockouts, increase the number of items dropped per table, have multiple servers running the same timeline so you only have one uber guild per server, etc.

what we have today is NOT a classic experience, and this comes from someone who did progression raiding on live across multiple guilds, on two servers, and who also raided Green with a top guild, doing all the content

All good suggestions, which should be discussed, as there should always be room for improvement.

Simple lockout timers, not even instanced, would by itself make for a much more enjoyable experience for everyone, as the respawn rate could even be instant then.

[Coridan]

Originally Posted by PabloEdvardo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was true on Green

Edit: In general, I agree with the sentiments in this thread that something needs to be done about p99 raiding and content progression.

Again and again we've been told that this isn't about creating a 1:1 forensic reproduction of classic everquest, but that some non-classic changes are because they want the game to give the classic experience when playing. Meaning, they want it to feel like you're playing in 1999 again.

I did NToV on Live across two servers, two "uber" guilds, and both of them did not pull the dragons. We would move them slightly within their lairs or pull them maybe down a hallway, but we weren't doing entrance pulls and kiteouts and trains. Rooting the dragons actually does bring the experience closer to what it was like on live. This is one example of how they've used non-classic changes to produce a classic experience.

So I also believe they need to strongly reconsider things like having multiple servers or raid content spawn rates or instancing. The number and intensity of raid guilds on these servers is unlike the majority of the experiences that players had on live. On live each server had raiding guilds which stuck to "their lane", and because new content was always coming out (new expansions, progression) rather than guilds competing for the top content, they progressed their members along the content and geared them up along the way. Once a player was geared through previous content in one guild, they would often leave and join the next guild up.

We see this a little bit in p99 with how guilds will be doing fear/hate in kunark while other guilds are chasing kunark dragons and VP, but once velious is reached and progression ends, the natural stratification of the guilds goes away completely.

In addition, p99 is extremely top-heavy when left to one server. Since 2-3 guilds on p99 all end up targeting the same "tier" of content, yet the spawn rates of the monsters is unaffected (and arguably even worse due to variances), players end up with a non-classic experience when it comes to loot availability. If on a Live server you only had maybe 100-150 players in an uber guild needing to be equipped on their mains, on p99 players often have 2 or more raiding level characters they regularly use, meaning with multiple guilds you might have 600-800 characters competing for the same drop availability.

Unlike Live when a guild would get every single spawn of specific bosses until they chose to progress past it, with competition on p99 guilds often get only a percentage of those kills.

All of this compounds into extremely low average loot availability for most players, and because progression dies at Velious, the top guilds never stop wanting Velious loot, and continue to farm it for years for their new members and alts, meaning other guilds are actually still actively prevented from progressing naturally to those bosses like they were in classic and kunark.

tl;dr is that more non-classic changes could do a lot to restore the classic raid experience on p99 instead of this completely non-classic competitive system with a fraction of the loot available per member

ideas like: get rid of variance, quadruple the spawn rate, add automated random weekly quakes, allow guild+character based instancing with lockouts, increase the number of items dropped per table, have multiple servers running the same timeline so you only have one uber guild per server, etc.

what we have today is NOT a classic experience, and this comes from someone who did progression raiding on live across multiple guilds, on two servers, and who also raided Green with a top guild, doing all the content

This might've been accurate for Blue, but not for Green, because we haven't gotten to Luclin launch in the timeline yet, so no, no one would be progressing past Velious.

What live did have was a more constant stream of new players and more frequent new servers. If a server started to get too top heavy the players in the third strongest would go to Torv or Tholuxe Paellis or whatever when it opened and be the top guild there and there would still be a ton of casuals and Perma lowbies to fill groups at all levels.

Here we have the equivalent of 3 or 4 of those top guilds making up 70% or so of the player base when really the content only supports two at the top, maybe three with Velious. Also the fact that at 60 there's nothing else to do. Maybe farm faction but no AAs to grind means no reason to group/get XP.

I love classic EQ, particularly the trip from 1-50 in pre-Kunark, but after that there's not much to do. It's why Green is supposed to recycle.

[Calmethar]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He does strongly resemble DSM.

No, I don't.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Calmethar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, I don't.

That's exactly what DSM would say honestly