When are they Implementing the Charm Nerf?

[Eleandra]

One more anecdotal comment:

I don't find the mechanics of charm here different enough to detect compared to my memory of live EQ from the start of Velious (started playing either right before or right after the velious expansion) through Gates of Diiscord (I think I quit about the time they nerfed charmed mobs). I did contribute charm parse logs to castersrealm at the time, but can't seem to dig those up now. Not positive my username on castersrealm was the same as this, unfortunately (my Enchanter's name). I thiiiink I started on Luclin server, later switched to Stormhammer (after 60).

I did personally use charm solo and in groups -- but not as much as here. (I started playing with dedicated 6 person friend group, so did about 1-45 with a pretty steady group, before people drifted away).

I *do* think channeling is slightly different -- it seems easier. Not waaaay easier, but easier (PS: wedge yourself in a corner, so hits can't push you). This isn't enchanter specific, of course, but as the int caster most likely to melee mobs (probably?), it might affect us the most.

People at the time (maybe not original release, but certainly by the end of Kunark) knew how to play. No one didn't understand Tash. Xxorn's Enchanter guide should be clear enough proof (as well as evidence that charming was known to be important).

However, two huge things stand out to me as 'not classic': population and gearing.

As others have said, live population was high. I don't remember average player numbers, but I'm guessing at *least* triple. Solo camping was generally looked down on in busy places because people wanted those camps for exp -- and maybe even mobs otherwise used for charm. I too remember Guk/Seb/Etc *packed* with people. The other side of this: people really wanted enchanters for groups, and playing with others (at least for me) is more fun. I'm guessing age also plays in: I'm now 20 years older than I was, and have a family and a kid and a 'grown-up job'. So, hanging about solo now is often the better choice instead of hopping into a multi-hour group.

The other big change: gear. With fewer people, and longer lived servers, people just have better gear here (even on Green) than they did on live. This actually affects melees more than casters -- serious twinks were pretty rare on live, and you basically get handed that level of gear here; this is not 'classic behavior' either. More hp, more ac, more int, all make charming easier than it was on live. (Solo and group charming really started happening in PoP, and I think a big part of that was the increase in gear availability and quality).

And neither of the above are affected by code at all -- the code could be *Exactly* as it was on live, and still result in 'non-classic behavior' due to social changes.

[loramin]

I'm done trying to debate this with you. Insulting me with this "goalpost moving" nonsense (when I've consistently said the same thing throughout this entire discussion) just shows you're not an honest debater, and are simply trying to make any claim you can to "win" (to what end, I honestly don't know).

[Loiterius]

I remember my time in Classic with my enchanter and Bard. I charmed more with my Bard because the risk of getting rocked only seemed manageable with my flimsy Bard plate mail.

I didn’t pet charm with my enchanter. I don’t remember if that was due to it being too dangerous or if I “didn’t know” to do so.

I just leveled a Magician to 48 and just swapped to play an Enchanter because I watched a buddy I was leveling with be a 1-man group to themselves. I am having a blast now with my enchanter, and although I had fun leveling my Magician, there is no contest on which class is the better pet/solo class right now.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm done trying to debate this with you. Insulting me with this "goalpost moving" nonsense (when I've consistently said the same thing throughout this entire discussion) just shows you're not an honest debater, and are simply trying to make any claim you can to "win" (to what end, I honestly don't know).

it's not nonsense. i wanted proof, not evidence. your memory of classic is 'evidence' but what is it evidence of? Certain things not happening at all? Certain things you just never saw but were still happening? Certain things you saw but simply forgot? or even more cynical take: you are lying because of a weird nerf-enchanter fixation?

if you were truly concerned abuout things not being classic, on top of your list would shaman torpor tanking everything solo. there were 5 to 10 times as many enchnters doing the shit you claim they werent doing than were torpor shamans soloing high end mobs. So how could you possibly get it so wrong?

that said, itreally does make the cynical intepretaton of your 'evidence' quite compelling, if i do say.

[cannobeers3]

The entire, "Nobody did it back then because internet connection" nonsense is almost appalling. Sorry you were a teen in the sticks while many of us had plenty of bandwidth elsewhere.

Confirmation bias and feelings are not conducive to pragmatic conversation.

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by cannobeers3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The entire, "Nobody did it back then because internet connection" nonsense is almost appalling

Pretty sure what a lot of us are describing here is that it actually WAS happening for those who had the neccessary setup.

Originally Posted by cannobeers3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry you were a teen in the sticks while many of us had plenty of bandwidth elsewhere. Confirmation bias and feelings are not conducive to pragmatic conversation.

Pretty sure it has also been recognized by most of us in this topic that all we really have to go off of is memories too. I don't think many of us really think that if changes happen, that they will have had anything to do with our feelings here. It is keeping the conversation going though. Maybe it will eventually lead to the smoking gun that is needed.

BTW, your call for pragmatism, while contributing nothing but your own feelings at the same time is pretty amusing as well. It doesnt make you look useful, or smart. Quite the opposite, actually. While I was that teen in the sticks that you descirbe, your education apparently never advanced beyond one. Learn some reading comprehension.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BTW, your call for pragmatism, while contributing nothing but your own feelings at the same time is pretty amusing as well. It doesnt make you look useful, or smart. Quite the opposite, actually. While I was that teen in the sticks that you descirbe, your education apparently never advanced beyond one. Learn some reading comprehension.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it must be sad to live in a world of so many splendid colors yet only see things in black and white.

You can always tell the people with the strong arguments: they're the ones that get personal with responses of insults and condescension [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can always tell the people with the strong arguments: they're the ones that get personal with responses of insults and condescension [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He started it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by cannobeers3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The entire, "Nobody did it back then because internet connection" nonsense is almost appalling. Sorry you were a teen in the sticks while many of us had plenty of bandwidth elsewhere.

Confirmation bias and feelings are not conducive to pragmatic conversation.

Are you aware Eq’s launch devastated internet for all businesses located in the sever’s city?

[Eleandra]

WAIT! There was a change: one AA was 'total domination', which lowered the mob's chance to break charm.

But, I don't think this was a big change (certainly nowhere as big as charmable mob level), so I do stand by my points.