Progressive leadership in a nutshell

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Horza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you don't think many people in this country hate immigrants "because they have a tan" then you quite obviously haven't been paying attention for the last few decades.

Ah, that's where you're coming from. I thought it was clear from context that I was referring to the norm around my own specific region. Around here the opposition is almost entirely of economic character. Elsewhere it could be other reasons, I make no claim either way in that case.

[Horza]

You don't think there are racists in rural Ohio??

[Byue]

I liked your response, Danth.
I can tell you put thoughts into this and you also feel for most.

I don't have all the answers yet I do have some, would you like them?
I don't know the rust belt as well as I would, mostly lived near the coast. (not many know but I was married to an American and lived in the USA a long time) From what I understand, rust belt, bible belt is similar in the sense that the education level is low and unskilled labourer, a plenty. The jobs were shipped overseas by capitalists who wanted to make more money by exploiting other people. I know there was no plan to shift jobs, as this is not the job of the free market and that it looks like the economy is in ruins and it is but luckily, you got Wall street and they made a bunch of moneys on your back. In fact, sending the jobs overseas initially dropped price enough to create a surge in demand.

The thing with the bus, I really don't get it, I won't lie.
However, this seems like poor planning. Yet for instance, bad planning isn't always planned intentionally tho sometimes, it is. Take the post service, conservatives made it
very difficult for the postal service to exist with laws forcing the service to fund all pensions before hiring new staff, etc.
I don't know what happened there and I don't even understand the situation but it sounds like most white people left American cities way back in the sixties when suburb was code for black-free. Now transportation should be a bipartisan issue and this is why I feel like this is the weakest of your argument.

It's not really helpful to bash anyone but if you live in a very rural community, chances are, you're not working for that high tech firm, or as a lawyer in the middle of a corn field, or an education based job but this does not mean you are uneducated and stupid.
However, if leftists do use redneck as a term, rednecks definitely use the term libtard.
Redneck still means hard working man.
Libtards means yeah.
So obviously, there are conservatives living in the city and liberals living in rural areas and it is useless to denigrate rural people as rednecks but then again, I think the people living in those rural areas have a pretty set idea of what a city dweller looks like.
This is a moot point because it's a bit outside of the discussion.



As for the immigrants, yes there is a favorable exchange rate but you do realize if they work in the USA they probably live in the USA as well and your local 7eleven still enjoys being paid in US dollars bro. I'm sorry that construction work used to be well paid work for guys who drop off high school but your country is not one of unskilled labour anymore, it's a country of brains building on brain job to rake in REAL money.
You cannot be number one by having a country full of cheap labour. Cheap labour, in a fully industrialized economy, should be immigrants even though it's bad for other reason. Notwithstanding all of this, immigration is definitely checked. There are strict laws. You even have a lottery.
And last but not least, the immigrants are american.
They also need to live.
You are American, you pull yourself up by the bootstrap.
right?

Basically, and I feel sad for you, you are angry at capitalists who emptied your city so they could better profit of exploiting other people in other countries.

You sound upset that while people struggled with food and water, Trump pointed out that wall street was doing great. This is what capitalists do.
They exploit your labour.

It's not the left's fault that your rich conservative boss moved his plant in Bangladesh.

You say progress is throwing an entire region under the bus.
I'm sorry, I feel like progress should have been expanding your portfolio and not putting all your eggs in one basket but it seems like some of the places you mentioned got eventually where they are because it was coal country. Shoal country. manufacturing belt country. etc. Weird how the place that thrive, now, are the places where people did not put all their eggs in one basket.

Weird how a very rich white dude moving hi plant oversea is somewhat the left's fault.


Look bruv, we tried to give you a union.
Look bruv, we tried to get you to be paid more so you could start your own coop and regenerate your own areas.

Basically, what I see here is a dude saying well I know I didn't go to school, I don't believe in school and I know all I have to sell is my body, to make money and that I am not very skilled but damn it, those portions of the economy that used to work for me are now closing off because unskilled labourer are cheaper everywhere else in the world and instead of changing with the times, I'ma cry for my coal job back and blame it on the left.

Which is wild.
Come on Danth.
You are better than this.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Byue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basically, and I feel sad for you, you are angry at capitalists who emptied your city so they could better profit of exploiting other people in other countries.

I agree. You'll note in my own post I generally avoided terms like 'right' and 'left.' The republican party around here has profited hugely by constantly reminding people that it was Clinton who signed NAFTA, but in actual practice "Team R" does nothing to help the local region, either. It's all pandering. My own home county was something like 85% pro-Trump in the last election. "Lopsided" doesn't even describe it adequately. I don't like seeing it because it becomes even easier for a government to ignore a region once it decides that region is a "lock" one way or the other and hence not worth caring about.

"Putting all their eggs in one basket" sidesteps the real issue: There are more workers than good jobs. You can't transplant millions of unemployed or under-employed rust belt'ers to California or Washington and suddenly see a bunch of new work materialize out of nowhere. You can tell people to go to college--and the government has--but all that has accomplished is a degradation of the relative value of a diploma again without driving any great job creation. The real solution--I don't know if it'll happen in my own lifetime or not--will be to somehow re-orient the economy to where full employment is no longer required or expected. If that sounds, well, slightly socialist then I'll simply point out I am not nor ever have been a Republican, even if I might occasionally vote for one. My parents were lifelong FDR democrats and my own political leaning, while distinct from theirs, still has a lot of that flavor to it.

-----------------------------------------

Horza: Sure there are some racist idiots around here, as with anyplace else. I am not going to paint the majority by the actions of a minority. That should be fair enough.

Danth

[Horza]

An Ohio lawmaker was fired from his job as a physician after asking at a hearing if the high rate of coronavirus cases among African-Americans was because “the colored population” did not wash their hands as well as other groups.

[G13]

Originally Posted by Horza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An Ohio lawmaker was fired from his job as a physician after asking at a hearing if the high rate of coronavirus cases among African-Americans was because “the colored population” did not wash their hands as well as other groups.

Well they are people of color

I would agree it's about as racist as assuming black voters don't know how to get an ID

[Horza]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well hes prob right

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well they are people of color

I would agree it's about as racist as assuming black voters don't know how to get an ID

I can already see the midterms are going to be a lot of fun.

[Byue]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real solution--I don't know if it'll happen in my own lifetime or not--will be to somehow re-orient the economy to where full employment is no longer required or expected

This is it.
Also, while it is true Clinton signed it into law, Reagan and his deregulation started the loop, if we are to be honest with ourselves. Actually, Reagan is a champion of neoliberalism and of Milton Friedman in general.

I like discussing with you.
You lean both ways and you are sensible.


There are problems in all spheres.
I think someone on this here forum said it best.

Conservatives: you're supposed to slow progress, not stall it entirely.


p.s: university does not create jobs the same way dropping out of high school doesn't create one, either but if you have an education, you got more to sell than your body. It obviously doe snot work for everybody because not everybody can go to school or even is inclined to do so but when in your life did you think, oh, learning about this is COMPLETELY USELESS. (most likely never happened because even useless knowledge ahs some uses and I would know, I have a baccalaureate in philosophy)

So basically, it doesn't have to be university but a worker's program where continuous education is propagated could do tons of good to revitalize a region.
I'm socialist and much worse than that so obviously, I have other solutions but this is one. Look, obviously, it's not the left's or the right's fault, it's rich individuals who choose freely to use the system in place to best their wallets.
Stop thinking otherwise.

You are free to get a vaccine or not?
This guy is free to move his company oversea where child labour is not illegal.
Be mad at that guy, not Clinton or Biden for fuck sake.

And chances are, that rich white dude who just moved his plant oversea?
Yeah. Chances are, he is republican.

Think about it for a second.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Originally Posted by Byue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a baccalaureate in philosophy

A hyper left wing philosophy major who has no kids and is too blind to see what his own country's leadership is doing to itself. Could you be any less useful to society?

[Byue]

I love this thread.

The country is divided.
It burnt for a while.
500k dead from a pandemic.
Children in cages.

right wingers make an angry post after receiving a stimulus check: this is what progressive leadership looks like!


I mean everyone miss the crazy rant of a demented racist cuck -come on melania is a hoe-written in all caps lock at 4am but you got to admit, progressive leadership is stable and nice and you don't have to fact check the president or hear him wish ghislaine maxwell well.