Player above server rules?

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Popularity and reputation aren't the same thing. Riptoes did not have a bad reputation where it pertained to breaking raid rules. He was kicked so that AM would get a more lenient punishment.

Much like how Furoar won't be ousted because he gets Freedom pixels. That's all it really boils down to. Riptoes was not a playmaker, and so was more expendable. It had nothing to do with reputation.

Speaking PERSONALLY
I was with Furoar one night at king and got trained 3 times by the same guy. I told him... i'm leaving this up to you because i'm pissed. He told the guy "please stop training us. I have fraps. Just leave us alone or im going to petition"

Speaking as if i was a guild leader
If we were talking about Kelz doing this shit, I wouldn't defend him the same way I defend Fur. Yes, obviously people who actually put in work to win the guild mobs will always have favor. And always will. Riptoes wasn't a playmaker, but he was a mid/high tier RA cleric if I remember correctly.... in the days when AM was dying. Kelz often berged out and did questionable shit when mad. Kelz would also probably be allowed to stay... whether it was with Aw, Tempest, or AM. But i wouldn't have been surprised at all if Kelz did that. And would say it was in line with his reputation as a player on p99.



NOW Nexii answer this

Would/Should the punishment be the same if this was Siryado doing this?

Because i'd slap him with a year

[-TK-]

The rules should be applied equally across the board by the staff with no regard to how involved or not involved someone is with the raid scene on the server or their level of notoriety. That is what would give credibility to a system most here would currently describe as whimsical.

This wasn't some accidental KC or Seb train. What should be considered here is that it was done with obvious malicious intent and caused countless patrons of the server to have a bad experience, and then caused the staff additional headaches trying to gather the details. One person decided his emotional vendetta was more important than the time of 100+ other players on the server, and the staff is pretty much giving him a pass with no permanent repercussions, despite the fact that he even went as far as to knowingly log into a competing guild's shared toon to try to cause additional chaos within the guild. This was not a first, second, third, fourth, fifth, etc.. warning. Literally for 10 years the staff has been saying not to do dumb shit like this. I just don't understand the logic that he should have a lesser penalty than a ban because he helps other people get raid loot. The staff constantly says they don't want people here ruining other peoples' game experience and that guild leaders are held to some higher standard, but then we have situations like this which just doesn't support it. If we're going to operate on some clandestine staff faction system, then the staff should provide a list of actions on the wiki that help raise your staff faction and actions that won't so that even non-raiders can bank some 'good karma' for when they decide to lose it on someone in Seb and train a whole group to death because they were going through hard times that night.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by -TK- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rules should be applied equally across the board by the staff with no regard to how involved or not involved someone is with the raid scene on the server or their level of notoriety. That is what would give credibility to a system most here would currently describe as whimsical.

This wasn't some accidental KC or Seb train. What should be considered here is that it was done with obvious malicious intent and caused countless patrons of the server to have a bad experience, and then caused the staff additional headaches trying to gather the details. One person decided his emotional vendetta was more important than the time of 100+ other players on the server, and the staff is pretty much giving him a pass with no permanent repercussions, despite the fact that he even went as far as to knowingly log into a competing guild's shared toon to try to cause additional chaos within the guild. This was not a first, second, third, fourth, fifth, etc.. warning. Literally for 10 years the staff has been saying not to do dumb shit like this. I just don't understand the logic that he should have a lesser penalty than a ban because he helps other people get raid loot. The staff constantly says they don't want people here ruining other peoples' game experience and that guild leaders are held to some higher standard, but then we have situations like this which just doesn't support it. If we're going to operate on some clandestine staff faction system, then the staff should provide a list of actions on the wiki that help raise your staff faction and actions that won't so that even non-raiders can bank some 'good karma' for when they decide to lose it on someone in Seb and train a whole group to death because they were going through hard times that night.

I dont' think i suggested fur should be punished less because of who he is. I said Fur's suspension is right in line with other people's suspensions in the past for the same offense. If anything, in terms of GM punishment, I THINK fur's was worse than the other two people I named.

I'm saying it shouldn't be held against him forever, because it was out of character. In my opinion. That's all.

[Evia]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm saying it shouldn't be held against him forever, because it was out of character. In my opinion. That's all.

Yeah but the rest of the server don’t get a “it was out of my character” free card. Why should he get special treatment? I’ve known of people getting permanently banned from this server for less.

[Benisato]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont' think i suggested fur should be punished less because of who he is. I said Fur's suspension is right in line with other people's suspensions in the past for the same offense. If anything, in terms of GM punishment, I THINK fur's was worse than the other two people I named.

I'm saying it shouldn't be held against him forever, because it was out of character. In my opinion. That's all.

I try to avoid these RnF posts, but perhaps this isn't something people have seen..

Out of character... when he had just trained Riot during an Eashen fight the week before the top three guilds got Raid banned? Only 20 Freedom AG in zone, the mob was already engaged, the mob was dying and he was salty.. There was no "Riot Offense" train, etc to call this a repercussion for. This is just Furoars, (and potentially Crowns), acting like children because they didn't get to kill a dragon. They tried to train in attempt to stall to get more people on.

https://youtu.be/UdeYLHQwQlo

In this video Eshen is to the right.. He was looking down the Hall he just ran in from waiting for the train, and sitting on our cleric. When the train came in he was ready and watching for it and flopped. You can also hear the surprise of our kiters as a "Random Wurm" appears from no where dragging a big big train towards us.


A clear violation of the PnP...

You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.
Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.

Guild Leaders and/or officers may be held accountable for any actions of their guild members, in addition to any other actions that may be taken. It is therefore the responsibility of the guild leadership to ensure that all guild members abide by these rules.

Why make these rules if they are not to be followed/enforced?

[Ravager]

There's only ever been like 2 or 3 players on this server that were universally hated. I can only even remember one of their names. That's how little reputation matters, and even if you get to the point where nobody wants anything to do with you, accounts are free and a fresh rep is a reroll away.


So go ahead and burn those bridges. It really doesn't matter.

[Nexii]

Are you talking about guild punishment or GM punishment? No guild leader is going to punish themselves.

[Endonde]

Riptoes was a high RA magician in AM, and he was one of the biggest trackers in AM at the time he got booted IIRC.

I actually think personality wise Riptoes and Furoar are very similar, both hot headed players that track a ton and hate to get beat.

I don't think that Furoar deserved to be perma banned, but I agree with what Kittens said in UN the other day. No one can really trust that Freedom will play by the rules after what Furoar did if they allow him to remain the guild leader.

I don't think most guilds trusted Freedom already, but after Furoar deliberately lied to the GM's about this I'm sure they won't trust him much in the future.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Riptoes was a high RA magician in AM, and he was one of the biggest trackers in AM at the time he got booted IIRC.

I actually think personality wise Riptoes and Furoar are very similar, both hot headed players that track a ton and hate to get beat.

I don't think that Furoar deserved to be perma banned, but I agree with what Kittens said in UN the other day. No one can really trust that Freedom will play by the rules after what Furoar did if they allow him to remain the guild leader.

I don't think most guilds trusted Freedom already, but after Furoar deliberately lied to the GM's about this I'm sure they won't trust him much in the future.

I dont often agree with ya but yup. At the least demote furoar for the guilds own rep. Riptoes was booted in a quickness for same thing.

[fritzad1]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont often agree with ya but yup. At the least demote furoar for the guilds own rep. Riptoes was booted in a quickness for same thing.

^