The Power of Bone Knights!! (With Data!!)

[Zoolander]

Originally Posted by N0tClassic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How would a Human perform with this spec

ive tried it and It worked up to 25 where I stoped.

as human u will have close to none int as a human necro with an AC/DEX build (below 100int with ec-tunnel gear and with dex invested at creation)

[Morton Jr]

Battle clerics with proc hammers you summon were amazing

Adding haste in old EQ Made you proc less btw ( EQ Emulator is nerfed tho )

[Natewest1987]

Tried it as well, though only for an afternoon - so just a bit. Made it to level 9 pretty quickly.

It was fun for a little bit, but I was maybe seeing 1.5 proc average per fight depending on its length. Usually had two procs of vampiric embrace. I know different weapons probably have different ppm, but any proc that would actually make a difference is gated by level and coin anyway. This might be fun for someone rolling around with the undead staff - in a fight lasting long enough to proc it, but otherwise it’s just not gonna be that fun.

Now if I could have the dagger of conflagration from kunark... maybe.

Also I think comparing it’s damage output to a charm pet is a little misleading. Like was that charm pet haste buffed + item haste, dex buffed, and given proc weapons ? Because otherwise it’s not doing it’s full potential either

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Natewest1987 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also I think comparing it’s damage output to a charm pet is a little misleading. Like was that charm pet haste buffed + item haste, dex buffed, and given proc weapons ? Because otherwise it’s not doing it’s full potential either

A necromancer can charm a high level undead, give them all the same things.

So bone knights "could" go past an enchanters sustained pet damage even. Just on a raid usually not everyone who can charm a pet is charming a pet... and for casual hunting, it's a pain keeping stuff charmed (and is more risky).

Why mess with a charmed pet and risk a troublesome break... when you can just rampage with a trusty bones instead?

[jolanar]

Man it would be super neat if there was a way for a bone knight to cast all the same spells but not have to be in melee range.

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by jolanar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man it would be super neat if there was a way for a bone knight to cast all the same spells but not have to be in melee range.

Being melee is what makes it so stronk. Pets trying to tank isn't so great. You end up in a race to kill the target before they outpace you in your pet healing (shadow pact is good, but it's only like 80 healing a tick.... pets can't last alone like that, especially not in a fast pace of fighting). That's why usually necros will fear kite instead, to save their pets from damage (which is a good way to fight! I do ice giants like that, but not the best option in a lot of situations).

So you are filling in the weakness of the pets healing by tanking yourself (since you can heal yourself really good). Then the pet becomes more like a strategic shield. Send in first to start the fight and set up your lifetap.... then before it gets too hurt, jump in and melee while it heals through its lifetap proc and natural regen.

You can FAR FAR outtank your pet until 40's... then the pet becomes pretty decent at taking hits, but still isn't like a mage earth pet or anything.

And the melee of boneknight isn't shabby either (it works out to be a lot better DPS over X amount of time than the mana could get you from medding.... ESPECIALLY since most of the damage is going to be dot damage, and mobs will die before you get a full dot duration off).

It's all about minimizing downtime and being the most efficient in terms of damage and recovery.... which anyone who has tried it past 20 or so knows about. Once you find yourself in unrest and clearing the entire yard non-stop alone or with a duo partner.... well, that never stops.

I've tested how a normal necromancer and a tanking strategy works against each other. In sky on the first island, there was one mob up... and me and another necromancer were seeing who could hurt it furthest before needing to feign.

By using my mana to trade off tanking with my pet, I was able to get it hurt it with melee twice as much as they were with dots (their pet just died too fast and he wasn't able to keep up, then needed to feign).

We both took a couple stabs at it too, so it was our prefered strategies against an unfearable mob (though, after that I used hate-kiting to get it down really low! But then I made a mistake of trying to unsummon my pet to reset the agro, and discovered the island was too small to give me time to resummon it... and I was too lazy to try again. But that's really similar to fear kiting since you need so much room, but good against monk GMs and things, like I killed the monk GM in qeynos like that, the one that enrages when low and all them things)

Anyhow.... bone knights is strong!! And also, gnomes is great!

[Natewest1987]

Ivory do you have any comments for efficiency through the leveling process? Obviously it works fine with your current end game setup, but how did this fare before you had access to these toys?

Were you able to tank sand giants when it was level appropriate and you had level appropriate gear?

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Natewest1987 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ivory do you have any comments for efficiency through the leveling process? Obviously it works fine with your current end game setup, but how did this fare before you had access to these toys?

Sand giants is still dark blue at 50.

But the efficiency of bone knight has always been top notch. The power really became obvious when I went to unrest and was non-stop killin the entire yard of even and some yellow and blue cons.

Then I went to permafrost, and the same thing... was able to kill a heck of a lot. Though I was duoing a lot there (with a monk, or a wizard, or sometimes a shaman)

And then cazic thule I soloed the maze and was slayin a bunch too.... and then as I got higher, I was able to take down the pyramid with all the harm touching mobs pretty easily (still very level appropriate).

Then it was guk and slayin everything.

Though as I leveled up higher, i definitely felt the inherent fragility more. Before mid 40's I was outtanking my pet easily. But after mid 40's I had to start letting my pet tank a little more and back up when I was hurt to heal off damage.

The thing is, while I was leveling up in groups... I'd always be tanking in groups (most of the times groups would think I was joking about wanting to tank, until I did it and they saw me tank....lol).

Before 40 I could easily outtank real tanks (since the lifetap dots made up a lot for things). Then after 40 I was still tanking in groups a LOT....especially in situations where the healer was getting low on mana and needed a rest, that was my chance to step in and tank for a while, exhausting my mana to heal myself for a while.... and by the time I needed to rest, the healer had mana again and I could stop using my mana much (so then i could take turns recovering).

I remember one group where the paladin was getting angry that I kept trying to tank, but he was just draining SOOO much mana from the healers and it was slowing everything down. Eventually I got him to stop trying to taunt-battle me... and he realized just how bonkers my tanking was. Since if I stay in lich form, I can melee non stop...and always have my lifetap dot up... and now and then throw out an extra lifetap, without dropping my mana that low (the video you can see some of my pace, I don't really use much mana to fight, especially in a group where the fights are shorter and there are little rests between).

And now that I'm 50. Mobs hit hard and can get a few good rounds off, and I don't have a giant hitpoint pool.... so I gotta take a step back and wait a few ticks for the healing to take effect, or use a lifetap and get back in. Which makes it harder to main tank without backing up and without needing any other patch healing. But at 53 (i think?) necros get a REALLY fast lifetap that will be amazing for staying in the fight and not needing to back up.

I also die fast if I get overwhelmed. I can't be like a warrior and shoulder 3 or 4 mobs for a while... it drops me too fast.

But with FD and situational awareness....and using pet to intercept multiples... it's not too hard to handle a lot of mobs in less brute force ways (when I was leveling, I'd often fight 2 or 3 at the same time, my pet fighting one thing...and me fighting something else, and keeping a 3rd mezzed).

Were you able to tank sand giants when it was level appropriate and you had level appropriate gear?

Also I wasn't that twinked when I was leveling. The only other character I had was Pockete...and a level 20 rogue can only twink so much. Just some weapons and some things like the sleeves or hat. I didn't even have HP rings until 30 or 40.

I met another bone knight recently who was completely outfitting themselves at just level 12!! farming orc belts and funding everything they needed. So with some effort, anyone can do this type of thing. It isn't like a fungi rogue or something super expensive in order to do.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also die fast if I get overwhelmed. I can't be like a warrior and shoulder 3 or 4 mobs for a while... it drops me too fast.

isnt it reletivly easy to maintain singles as a necro doing this?

Curious what each fight "feels like"

do you just grab a mob, and facetank it right there? engulf dark, so it cant run, and just kill it on the spot?

I kind of like the idea of like a single 1v1 fight, no pets, no worry about needing space, just a little realistate to melee in, just you and a small hallway?

Sounds super fun, I want to do this!!!!!

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

isnt it reletivly easy to maintain singles as a necro doing this?

Curious what each fight "feels like"

do you just grab a mob, and facetank it right there? engulf dark, so it cant run, and just kill it on the spot?

I kind of like the idea of like a single 1v1 fight, no pets, no worry about needing space, just a little realistate to melee in, just you and a small hallway?

Sounds super fun, I want to do this!!!!!

Why wouldn't you use a pet?? If I'm trying to exp or kill something hard, I always use a pet....

If I'm just running by and I see something I want to slay (like a hill giant), then I don't use a pet and go melee it.

I also rarely darkness things. Usually things die before they can really run that far (though I'll darkness if I'm right in the middle of a bunch of things and only camping one mob near too much other stuff).

Also single pulling as a necro is SUPERRR easy. You just screaming terror something on its spawn point... that social agros whatever is nearby. Then once they come, FD and stand up (it should clear the one that was terrored on the spawn point)... then if 2 come, screaming terror one while you slay the other.