Proposed amendment to Scout Roll

[Pootle]

Originally Posted by Trexller [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone that has won the roll has been thankful that a kill force was present.

When you win the roll you will be thankful that a kill force IS present.

Exactly this!

[LazyHydras]

Originally Posted by Trexller [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is more fair than a /random 1000 ?

All due respect to my former guild, this is the reason I left Dawn Believers. A /rand 1000 is not "fair" because you can be there for your 200th roll, be the only person that trains the giants to DN or the only person that rips the Captain off the train, and not get it, but someone shows up w/ their lvl50 alt for the first time and does a /rand 1000 and gets their item and dips.

Is that fair? No. Is it still fairer than Clickfest where certain individuals will always get it first because of either low ping or automation? Sadly, yes.

[Trexller]

Originally Posted by LazyHydras [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All due respect to my former guild, this is the reason I left Dawn Believers. A /rand 1000 is not "fair" because you can be there for your 200th roll, be the only person that trains the giants to DN or the only person that rips the Captain off the train, and not get it, but someone shows up w/ their lvl50 alt for the first time and does a /rand 1000 and gets their item and dips.

Is that fair? No. Is it still fairer than Clickfest where certain individuals will always get it first because of either low ping or automation? Sadly, yes.

"Fair" means that no other player has an advantage to win over another player.

/random is an equal chance to win for any player who rolls

Your bad luck does not mean unfair. It means the dice hate you.

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[Hisamori]

Originally Posted by Trexller [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is more fair than a /random 1000 ?

a list system simply will never be implemented. the list system was a good idea on green, so logically it could work on blue. Rog-bog knew they were gonna use the /list system for green over a year ago. They had it worked out. They could implement it on blue anytime they wanted. They did not do so, because blue is "done".

So that leaves you with the existing system. Where fairness is determined by a roll.

Everyone that has won the roll has been thankful that a kill force was present.

When you win the roll you will be thankful that a kill force IS present.

I don't have an issue with /roll or a player maintained list (not /list) or clickfest. My point was modifying an agreement is no different than have an agreement to begin with. Both are valid ways to try structure loot distribution. Saying one is because someone/people are upset about the way access to loot is structured but not the other is disingenuous.

I don't have a particular need/want for the roll to change, I was only laboring under the assumption that a different system was needed because that was the premise of OP's post.

Making it lvl 60 only is fine. I see that as fair. The quest designer clearly screwed up itemizing the rewards for this back in 1999 as the bracer and talisman are far too good for the simplicity/ease of the quest. So adding other artificial constrains into the agreement is one way to make the limited availability of loot satisfy the players actually able to complete the quest.

Another would be to have a minimum roll to win. This would be harder to keep track of than regular roll but would ensure less RNG unfairness. As it is, sometimes a 992 can lose (have seen it) or an 868 can win (I won with this not long ago, actually). Rolling against a static number vs. rolling against what others happen to roll is statistically a different picture.

Again, these are just suggestions based on OP's premise. This conversation is a thought exercise more than it is a dire need to change the current agreement as I see it.

[Ripqozko]

pass, thanks

[White_knight]

I think 55-60 level range sounds fair.

Heck a level 50 would barely contribute to the fight unless it was maybe a cleric.

If I was spending my time tryin to get a bracer and some level 40 logged in (probably been boxed) just to /ran I'd be pretty pissed too.

Making it a 55-60 requirement puts a natural level barrier there.

P.s. I went to about 10 rolls on my Paladin before deciding grinding to 60 was better then parking him there just for a bracer chance

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by White_knight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Heck a level 50 would barely contribute to the fight unless it was maybe a cleric.

This isn’t really true at all. Firstly anyone can help with the train and tag. Secondly the captain is only level 58 and isn’t a particularly tough one. It is easily tanked by characters in their early 50s. I’ve done it myself.

Saying these characters barely contribute and don’t deserve loot is frankly ridiculous. You may as well say non of the level 60s deserve nToV or city leader gear as the 60s barely contribute (similar level difference and in fact even greater disparity of power).

The fact is a force of 50s in mediocre velious gear could absolutely kill captain, and really I feel they deserve it more than a bunch of bottom feeding 60s fighting a single blue mob at zoneline.

[kaizersoze]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn’t really true at all. Firstly anyone can help with the train and tag. Secondly the captain is only level 58 and isn’t a particularly tough one. It is easily tanked by characters in their early 50s. I’ve done it myself.

Saying these characters barely contribute and don’t deserve loot is frankly ridiculous. You may as well say non of the level 60s deserve nToV or city leader gear as the 60s barely contribute (similar level difference and in fact even greater disparity of power).

The fact is a force of 50s in mediocre velious gear could absolutely kill captain, and really I feel they deserve it more than a bunch of bottom feeding 60s fighting a single blue mob at zoneline.

they dont have their zoneline dragons anymore. This is all they have left.

[REMEZ]

I hear you can just edit the wiki to enforce your own personal player agreement

[Daldolma]

Scout roll is literally the worst thing about p99, I support any and all amendments to this abomination

Force people to play the game for loot