/list feature first phase completed - reviews and suggestions for the future

[Taiku]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think either the system Izmael has proposed (/list to join the item group), the system I proposed (/list to win the rights to kill the item mob for 10 minutes), or any other system that relies on "luck and patience" (ie. playing EverQuest) as opposed to not sleeping and clicking unclassic boxes, will be a vast improvement (but just so I'm not misunderstood, the current /list was also a vast improvement over no lists at all).

Any such "randomness, not staring at your screen endlessly" system would address all the concerns you listed and more.

Yeah for sure, I guess what I meant by a better solution was, a better solution implemented by the staff, there seems to be a lot of good suggestions on how to handle it a bit better, though I am curious if the p99 staff are even considering different routes to take with it or if they'll just leave it how it is, and if people actually want the item, that's just the price they have to pay to maybe get it.

By how people berate the staff and complain about this server I feel like they maybe feel it's a proper punishment!

I'm not quite sure how the /list system works as far as other non heavily contested, non legacy camps, can you /list at the AC in OOT and such? I think I would take some exception to a /list system that allowed someone to come claim a random chance to kill a mob someone had been previously camping for multiple hours. Sorry if I'm totally mistaken on how this works!

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Taiku [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah for sure, I guess what I meant by a better solution was, a better solution implemented by the staff, there seems to be a lot of good suggestions on how to handle it a bit better, though I am curious if the p99 staff are even considering different routes to take with it or if they'll just leave it how it is, and if people actually want the item, that's just the price they have to pay to maybe get it.

The staff here is ... cagey. Their style is not to post a thread saying "hey guys, we hear you have problems with /list, how could it be better?"

And you can probably guess why that is, given ...

Originally Posted by Taiku [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

how people berate the staff and complain about this server I feel like they maybe feel it's a proper punishment!

Thankfully the staff doesn't judge (or punish) the whole server for the actions of a few [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Instead, they just do their thing (in silence), and then spring whatever they feel is best for us on us, whenever they feel like it.

But, at the same time, I wouldn't assume they don't care about how we feel. There is a wealth of evidence to suggest that the staff reads this forum, and given that they do they'd be idiots to look at a good idea and go "yeah that'd be great, but it came from a player so we're not doing that."

To the contrary, I absolutely believe they listen to us ... they just do it very quietly.

Originally Posted by Taiku [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not quite sure how the /list system works as far as other non heavily contested, non legacy camps, can you /list at the AC in OOT and such? I think I would take some exception to a /list system that allowed someone to come claim a random chance to kill a mob someone had been previously camping for multiple hours. Sorry if I'm totally mistaken on how this works!

Currently /list is only for legacy mobs on Green, and it's likely to stay that way in the near future. Keep in mind that "automated GMing" is an experiment, and as this thread shows the result of that experiment has not been "we've got the perfect solution" ... yet.

Someday I think it'd be in everyone's interest (staff and players) to implement some form of "automated GMing" to problematic non-legacy NPCs like Hadden and the AC ... but the staff are likely going to keep "dipping their toe in the water" (of automated GMing) a lot more at first before they do that.

[Kich867]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think either the system Izmael has proposed (/list to join the item group), the system I proposed (/list to win the rights to kill the item mob for 10 minutes), or any other system that relies on "luck and patience" (ie. playing EverQuest) as opposed to not sleeping and clicking unclassic boxes, will be a vast improvement (but just so I'm not misunderstood, the current /list was also a vast improvement over no lists at all).

Any such "randomness, not staring at your screen endlessly" system would address all the concerns you listed and more.

The random person in "group" solution makes a lot of sense but only if your chances of receiving the item increases each time you don't get it. At face value, handing it to someone in the top 6 could mean you never end up receiving it.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Kich867 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The random person in "group" solution makes a lot of sense but only if your chances of receiving the item increases each time you don't get it. At face value, handing it to someone in the top 6 could mean you never end up receiving it.

A "guarantee of treasure for those who wait" is something you have to lose to get rid of "endless AFK clicks". You can make the system reward those that wait for an insane time, or you can reward the patient and the lucky (but this means unlucky people might make hundreds of attempts and never get an item).

Which should we have? Well I'd answer that with another question: how many things (outside of lists) in EverQuest do you get by being lucky/patient (and the unlucky get screwed), and how many things do you have guaranteed because you sat somewhere for days without sleeping?

[boukk]

Originally Posted by Kich867 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The random person in "group" solution makes a lot of sense but only if your chances of receiving the item increases each time you don't get it. At face value, handing it to someone in the top 6 could mean you never end up receiving it.

Just like any group then, can happen but how likely is it?

[Izmael]

If you're in the top 6 on the list, there's 83 % chance you don't get it awarded when it drops.

The probability of it happening twice in a row is 69 %
3 in a row: 58 %
4 in a row: 48 %
5 in a row: 40 %
6 in a row: 33.5 %
10 in a row: 16 %
15 in a row: 6.5 %
20 in a row: 2.6 %
30 in a row: 0.4 %

Basically it will be fun to listen to these 0.4% stories in RnF.

[Phaezed-Reality]

end of welfare pixel era is over, for now. may brad rest easy again.

[fadetree]

there is no way to prevent account sharing of one sort or the other. People will do anything they possibly can to get around any rules or conditions. There is no way to prevent people gaming this feature by substituting other humans behind the char.

[GnomeCaptain]

List is terrible.

Creating a situation in which the only people that win are those that cheat (with account sharing) or stay glued to their screens for 24-48 hours or more (and thus threaten their own lives) is incredibly irresponsible.

And it's about as far from EQ as possible, which is ironic given this project is supposed to be all about recreating classic.

[fadetree]

Well, the only other options are to:
1. allow kill stealing, camp fighting, young lawyering, and mass hysteria to go on willy nilly with no redress.
2. Have a GM spend 100% of their time physically watching the camp.
3. remove all legacy items and be done with it.

There are no good solutions here. There is one sort of less terrible solution, which is the current list system. I probably would have gone with #3. Even the suggestion for changing the list system to a random award of the item is terrible, because bad rng will screw you over, you could have some poot who just got there get the item after you've been waiting 40 hours, plus guilds would overload the list with people to increase chances. It is just not solveable.