Wizards! Do you regret it?

[ryandward]

Originally Posted by Acillatem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AA Crits were more for show. Yes they helped - but the smart WIZ got Spell Casting Mastery and Subtlety first. They helped more.

The thing about AAs were that individually they didn't make a big difference - but as a whole gave a tremendous (and much needed) boost to the WIZ class.

For some other classes it was somewhat different. Get one particular AA and you are golden. For the WIZ it was like building a puzzle and each AA line was it's own piece.

You are right, however for the scope of p1999, the best fix would be to recalculate dmg/mana ratios and put Wizards much higher than they are.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by ryandward [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are right, however for the scope of p1999, the best fix would be to recalculate dmg/mana ratios and put Wizards much higher than they are.

That only solves a player-made problem. Wizards are still highly effective at dropping that annoying healer before he can get a heal off. They are still highly effective at dropping a boss from 70% to 0% faster than the melee are going to kill him. Wizards are still highly effective at getting that crucial EVAC off deep in dungeon where CR would really suck. Players have decided that sustained DPS is better than burst, or the utility offered by a wizard. Game mechanics still exist the give preferential treatment to including a wizard in your party.

If they had higher dmg/mana ratios, then they would be even better at doing what they do: unloading a manabar on some poor boss mob.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizards are still highly effective at dropping that annoying healer before he can get a heal off.

How so? Their burst damage at higher levels doesn't come anywhere close to killing a MOB that is at the amount of health where it will generally begin healing. The most effective way to deal with healers is to stun them. Wizards can do that, but Enchanters do it far better because their stuns cost 1/3 the amount of mana, cast faster, and cycle faster. Clerics can stun more efficiently than Wizards as well.

If it's a target that can't be stunned, well, that's why you want 3 or 4 melee in your party. They have a chance of interrupting the cast from attacks and if the heal gets off it's not a huge deal anyway (unless it was a Cheal) because the constant damage they do is better than having a Wizard in the party. Since melee do far more DPS than a Wizard, it means targets drop quicker. The Wizard might do more damage in a short timeframe when the target is at lower health, and thus lessen the amount of heals it can get off, but having the Wizard in your party means it takes longer to get the target to the point where it will begin healing in the first place. Thus, the target isn't actually dying much quicker with the Wizard in the party, in comparison to another melee class instead, and for every 1 target that the Wizard might help drop a bit quicker, there are 2 or 3 more they won't have mana for that a melee could be doing significant damage to.

[Nirgon]

When bashes and warrior kicks run out, a wizard should have it dead by then.

[Atmas]

How much more discussion can there be about Wizards not doing well in groups pulling one at a time?

Complaining about Wizard sustained DPS is like complaining about Rogue healing ablities. The class was designed to be good at some aspects and balanced by not being good at other aspects.

I imagine that after playing some other MMOs like WoW people forget what the point of a mana bar is. EQ is designed a lot closer to the first ruleset of DnD where destructive classes like Wizards were limited in the amount of their abilities they could use in a certain time period.

I still feel that Luclin was tremendous for Wizards, AAs for reducing spell hate, decreasing cast time, decreasing spell cost, and even to a degree crits improved the ability for Wizards to do more damage, earlier, faster and longer. Up until that point all Wizards of equal levels and spells, given the same buffs, did the same DPS, the only difference was who would go OOM first. Infact until AAs with some agro issues you couldn't even go OOM on some encounters.

I'll never regret playing a wizard because:
1. I get to blow shit up
2. I can solo for xp
3. Despite my sustained DPS sucking I have saved groups on several occasions when too many mobs have come back from a pull and there is no mez.
4. I live exploring and traveling and its nice to not have to look for a port if I want to go somewhere else.

Btw Ace good to see an old TZer. I remember doing some Kedge runs with you and KoTWR. Ace is King of Kedge!

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by ryandward [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are right, however for the scope of p1999, the best fix would be to recalculate dmg/mana ratios and put Wizards much higher than they are.

I don't think this server is about balancing classes, but keeping it classic.

[Reppy]

I played a Wizard here and still do, play a monk due to people not picking up my wizard in a group. As A wizard it is all about useing your dps\mana I have always been about to output more dps while saving mana for the next mob and not going oom in a group tons of time. To many people have gotten bad wizards in there group and made them look gimped. I remember being able to output more damage in live then here at the same lvl or i could be wrong. When I am grouped on my wiz I lean more towards no agro and doing a moderate about of dps and saving a little more mana, then unloading 30% of my mana on one mob. I see alot of folks use rain spells. I never really used rain spells in vs single dd it can be deadly for the wizard or the group depending on where you are and what you might break or aggro. I would def say the wizard are a big underdog here, and I thought that Vel helped the wizard class out not luclin. During Vel they get there familier which gave a boost to there Mana Regen/DMG, Harvest was the 300 mana regen spell that had like a 8-10 min timer. Which that happened in Vel not in luclin.

[ryandward]

Originally Posted by Reppy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Harvest was the 300 mana regen spell that had like a 8-10 min timer. Which that happened in Vel not in luclin.

It happened some time during Kunark

http://web.archive.org/web/200012100...p?Class=Wizard

This is from November 2000

[ryandward]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think this server is about balancing classes, but keeping it classic.

I think you are right, but then why are there SO many patches about damage recalculation for melee, etc?

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by ryandward [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you are right, but then why are there SO many patches about damage recalculation for melee, etc?

Because as I know it, melee damage calcs aren't presented exactly the way one would think. There's a lot of subjective measures and then you have special cases for if something is higher level, weapon skill, etc etc.

The code you get to start with doing an eqemu is almost unusable for calculating anything classic or even live for that matter.

What FEELS fair and what IS classic is very different.