The Manastone Calculation

[magnetaress]

I have seen a druid and a wizard use one once. Didn't impress me much though. I felt like it gave them only a slight advantage in downtime over not having it. Like. 5% less downtime. Just how much it felt different with them in the group vs someone without a manastone. I feel like it was more a peace of mind thing or something to help with an obsessive compulsion to be "doing something".

I had a cleric friend who bought one eventually, but I outleveled them by being clever long before they bought the stone.

[Castle2.0]

Not going back within 12 pages to find the guy who said, "everyone knows the power of the manastone" or something to that effect... but it was said by someone!

I wish he could see some of these responses to see how wrong he is.

In terms of ability to go from OOM to full past classic on a solo character, it's very close between an epic'd wizard and a druid. Stay tuned for that video. Release date: One day after Sol Ro patch.

[mycoolrausch]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[list=1][*]No substitute -- Manna Robe doesn't even come close with 3 sec cast and int caster only limitation

And yet, people will be trading stones for robes when kunark drops.

[Castle2.0]

Originally Posted by mycoolrausch

And yet, people will be trading stones for robes when kunark drops.

Someone also traded hundreds of GLS for SMR. So what? That's the beauty of list. Unguilded solo player can camp The Manastone. That person will never get a dropped Manna Robe.

I am sure you will see some crazy trades of WTT Manastone for ((insert difficult to obtain solo raid item))

Originally Posted by Tuljin

~Rant against DKP system~
~Rant that there's not a lot of money on Green~
~Comment knocking Manastone~

Saving space so my post doesn't blow up.

Myth #1: "Everyone is broke"
There's plenty of money on server. As stated in the original post, money is ALWAYS increasing. Very few plat sinks, and very few people use those plat sinks.

HGs nearly permacamped meaning that's ~30,000pp flooding into the server every single day. (6 HGs, ~25pp average drop, ~7min pops, you do the math.)

This myth of everyone being broke is just projection of broke players assuming everyone is broke like them. When someone spends 20k on FBSS it's not that the 20k disappears. Magically..... the person who sold the FBSS now has that money and can spend it on items!

"Myth #2: Prices are coming down because people have no money"

See Myth #1 busted and continue reading. Prices are coming down on some items which could be for a lot of reasons.

Yes, the price of The Manastone will jump when Sol Ro releases. No, Rubicite BP will not go up - it can be replaced and does not have a unique function (hp regen) like The Manastone (hp->mana)

[RipVanFish]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Someone also traded hundreds of GLS for SMR. So what? That's the beauty of list. Unguilded solo player can camp The Manastone. That person will never get a dropped Manna Robe.

I am sure you will see some crazy trades of WTT Manastone for ((insert difficult to obtain solo raid item))


Saving space so my post doesn't blow up.

Myth #1: "Everyone is broke"
There's plenty of money on server. As stated in the original post, money is ALWAYS increasing. Very few plat sinks, and very few people use those plat sinks.

HGs nearly permacamped meaning that's ~30,000pp flooding into the server every single day. (6 HGs, ~25pp average drop, ~7min pops, you do the math.)

This myth of everyone being broke is just projection of broke players assuming everyone is broke like them. When someone spends 20k on FBSS it's not that the 20k disappears. Magically..... the person who sold the FBSS now has that money and can spend it on items!

"Myth #2: Prices are coming down because people have no money"

See Myth #1 busted and continue reading. Prices are coming down on some items which could be for a lot of reasons.

Yes, the price of The Manastone will jump when Sol Ro releases. No, Rubicite BP will not go up - it can be replaced and does not have a unique function (hp regen) like The Manastone (hp->mana)

Prices seem to be coming down on nearly everything man, not everyone is broke but I think most people have far less platinum then you think they do.

That hill giant cash for example is divided over many different people, and those people change day by day.

[Tuljin]

It's a lot like the actual economy. A lot of people want a Ferrari and can't afford one. Anyone who can actually afford one can really afford multiple.

Someone's gonna come around and say "ya know, this fine piece of Italian machinery, it's really incredible, it's super fast, it's worth the money. It's only 350k! But ya know what, it's worth even MORE than that and if you don't buy one now it's gonna be even more expensive!"

Then you get many people quite well off that would say - "yeah Ferraris are cool and all, buy my fifth generation Corvette that I keep in my garage and has an upgraded valvetrain, suspension, and exhaust didn't cost me anywhere near as much as a Ferrari and I can't even drive it safely on public roads. I'm gonna keep buying rental properties."

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

HGs nearly permacamped meaning that's ~30,000pp flooding into the server every single day. (6 HGs, ~25pp average drop, ~7min pops, you do the math.)

This myth of everyone being broke is just projection of broke players assuming everyone is broke like them. When someone spends 20k on FBSS it's not that the 20k disappears. Magically..... the person who sold the FBSS now has that money and can spend it on items!

Originally Posted by RipVanFish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Prices seem to be coming down on nearly everything man, not everyone is broke but I think most people have far less platinum then you think they do.

That hill giant cash for example is divided over many different people, and those people change day by day.

It's not "projecting" everyone is broke. I farm and sell items dude. I log into EC every day and check forums. Nobody is buying top end items.

You need to sell Ferraris to ~~~rich people~~~. Many rich people already have one. If they don't, a rich person knows a Ferrari is nice, but probably doesn't want one or spends money elsewhere.

Rant "against" DKP dude - it's not "against." It is what it is. It explains why the first people to the server who went hard and hoarded a bunch of money have it all and everyone else who is new really doesn't. Collecting DKP doesn't directly make you money, and DKP is worth "nothing" until you have an item. Period. The server nubs are broke and they will continue to be broke.

And then we get the paper napkin math EQ nerds love so much. Is just one person farming Hill Giants for 24 hours a day? It would take them 5 days to make 150k. Is someone farming 8 hours a day and making 10k? Is someone gonna farm Hill Giants 8 hours a day for 15 days then go buy a Manastone for 150k? Or are they gonna....go camp one?

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, the price of The Manastone will jump when Sol Ro releases. No, Rubicite BP will not go up - it can be replaced and does not have a unique function (hp regen) like The Manastone (hp->mana)

I'm not even gonna go dig up the post but I called people out that turning down 35k for a Rubi BP in December was foolish. Lo and behold, they barely sell for 20k now. The logic for why everyone was saying they'd spike after they stopped dropping is simply because...it stopped dropping. The benefit of the item never came into question.

Manastone is only useful for casters. They are useless for melees. "Epic Wizard." How many of those are there going to be on Green???

Kunark comes, eventually Velious. Melees get a huge bump. People are gonna drop plat on melee gear.

You miss my point and I'm not wrong - Manastone price won't spike right after Sol Ro comes out. Nobody is buying them in the first place. Nobody has the money. Anybody with money is going to spend it on other things. By the time a Manastone sells for 150k plat will have inflated and it's not worth the "150k" you think it is.

The person who sold manastone for 70k in December? Smart. He probably went and got another one. Someone on forum said one sold for 140k? People are WTB and WTS on forums but seemingly with no bites?

The real question is...how many have actually been sold? How many ~will~ even be sold and not straight traded on down the line?

You always seem to have some type of "explanation" and "justification" for peddling these things but dude, nobody has the money. If they have it they are holding out and they likely already have one.

150k is a lot of plat man. As long as people hoard DKP and not actual coin 150k will remain a lot of plat. The whole DKP thing won't change. An item that isn't selling for 150k now won't magically sell for more than that because it simply no longer drops and there are in fact hundreds on the server. It's just not how things work dude.

[Tuljin]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's plenty of money on server. As stated in the original post, money is ALWAYS increasing. Very few plat sinks, and very few people use those plat sinks.

HGs nearly permacamped meaning that's ~30,000pp flooding into the server every single day. (6 HGs, ~25pp average drop, ~7min pops, you do the math.)

And really I was making my post and didn't get into this more but I mean...with the paper napkin math.

30k a day, you play 8 hours. You make 10k. That's if you kill every single HG. You don't. If ~anybody~ is making 10k per day at any camp, they certainly won't tell anybody where it is lol.

Also, 30k a day from Hill Giants. Let's say for easy math there's 1000 actual human players (there's more.) That's 30 platinum a day per player. We are talking about less than 30 platinum per day per player coming from Hill Giants.

At this point, daily server population is well under 1k. How many of them are leveling? How many of them are waiting for the next Fear spawn? How many of the nubs are actually leveling and vendoring their bronze and fine steel instead of powerleveling?

The actual coin injection into the economy at this point has stagnated. Its very low. This can't be calculated with paper napkin math. Even if you did, its low.

I just had an epiphany thinking about this nonsense. My father growing up used to sit at the kitchen table and try to figure out dice odds. He did this on a paper napkin. He did this a lot. He'd do it with horses and dogs too. He always told me that "you can't beat them." And he's absolutely right. The fact that he sat there and tried to figure it out on a paper napkin...shit he could have tried to figure it out with Watson...is ridiculous.

The EQ nerd "paper napkin" math is so ridiculous and its tired. 10 years of P99. Its tired and ridiculous. Its so ridiculous that you have to sit down and think about it and wrap your brain around it and you poke a million holes in it and then you finally say...."wow, that's absolutely fucking ridiculous" lol

[Jimjam]

The closer green gets to sky/kunark the less people shall be willing to spend plat on items that will be unsellable in a few months.

[Castle2.0]

It's a lot like the actual economy. A lot of people want a Ferrari and can't afford one. Anyone who can actually afford one can really afford multiple.

Someone's gonna come around and say "ya know, this fine piece of Italian machinery, it's really incredible, it's super fast, it's worth the money. It's only 350k! But ya know what, it's worth even MORE than that and if you don't buy one now it's gonna be even more expensive!"

Then you get many people quite well off that would say - "yeah Ferraris are cool and all, buy my fifth generation Corvette that I keep in my garage and has an upgraded valvetrain, suspension, and exhaust didn't cost me anywhere near as much as a Ferrari and I can't even drive it safely on public roads. I'm gonna keep buying rental properties."

Bad analogy. No one has "manastone lite." It's categorically different - on a whole different level. A better analogy is flying a helicopter to work versus driving a car through traffic.

It's not "projecting" everyone is broke. I farm and sell items dude. I log into EC every day and check forums. Nobody is buying top end items.

You need to sell Ferraris to ~~~rich people~~~. Many rich people already have one. If they don't, a rich person knows a Ferrari is nice, but probably doesn't want one or spends money elsewhere.

I guess you don't own and/or haven't tried to sell a manastone. You're right though, rich people have one-car garages with one Ferrari in it... Oh wait... People got their cleric alt, their wiz alt, their druid alt... It's not like 1 manastone is enough (for the rich.)

Rant "against" DKP dude - it's not "against." It is what it is. It explains why the first people to the server who went hard and hoarded a bunch of money have it all and everyone else who is new really doesn't. Collecting DKP doesn't directly make you money, and DKP is worth "nothing" until you have an item. Period. The server nubs are broke and they will continue to be broke.'

You can raid and still make cash. They aren't mutually exclusive.

And then we get the paper napkin math EQ nerds love so much. Is just one person farming Hill Giants for 24 hours a day? It would take them 5 days to make 150k. Is someone farming 8 hours a day and making 10k? Is someone gonna farm Hill Giants 8 hours a day for 15 days then go buy a Manastone for 150k? Or are they gonna....go camp one?

Would someone do 8 hours/day for ~2 weeks @ HG while they work their low-activity job, but don't have the health or lack of social life to camp a manastone for 80 hours straight. YES!

Would someone camp HG 4 hours/day at off times for 1 month instead of camping a manastone for 80 hours straight? YES!

Let's keep the question simple and more general: Will some choose to camp plat over a longer period of time instead of camping 50, 60, 70, 80 or more hours straight on manastone? Absolutely yes

Also, it's not just that one person camps all that plat. I'm simply saying plat is flooding the server HHK guards, HGs, etc. Guilds are buying up root nets, IG toes, etc. Plat is flowing.

HGs alone (if camped 24/7) would bring in one million plat to the server in a little over 1 month. That's just 1 set of 6 mobs in one zone. The treants in SK are probably ~250k/month (assuming 300pp/hour.) And there's more cash camps than that.

Individuals seriously underestimate how much plat is being produced and floating around the server because they only see their individual activity. People get all surprised when prices inflate later.

[b]I'm not even gonna go dig up the post but I called people out that turning down 35k for a Rubi BP in December was foolish. Lo and behold, they barely sell for 20k now. The logic for why everyone was saying they'd spike after they stopped dropping is simply because...it stopped dropping. The benefit of the item never came into question.[/quote] No surprise here for me. I sold mine at 28k and bought and sold 2 more, each bought at 22k and sold at 26-28k. No comparison to manastone. Rubi BP = replaceable and effect at 50+ is minimal. Manastone irreplaceable and effect becomes more powerful at larger mana/hp pools. Iksar BP and Fungus Tunic arrive in Kunark. RIP Rubi. I haven't touched it for weeks now.

Manastone is only useful for casters. They are useless for melees. "Epic Wizard." How many of those are there going to be on Green???

Wrong again. You obviously don't know how druids can be just as effective as wizards, maybe more effective. No worries, stay tuned for that video. If you care to wager some platinum. I'll prove a druid can be about as effective as epic'd wizard +/-10% time to go from OOM to FM.

Kunark comes, eventually Velious. Melees get a huge bump. People are gonna drop plat on melee gear.

You miss my point and I'm not wrong - Manastone price won't spike right after Sol Ro comes out. Nobody is buying them in the first place. Nobody has the money. Anybody with money is going to spend it on other things. By the time a Manastone sells for 150k plat will have inflated and it's not worth the "150k" you think it is.

No way people will buy any melee gear. Remember, everyone is broke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Funny, you admit plat is flooding into economy causing inflation, but then say everyone is broke.... Manastone price will 100% spike after Sol Ro. Watch.

[Castle2.0]

The math might be 'tired and ridiculous' because of your terrible assumptions.

30k a day, you play 8 hours. You make 10k. That's if you kill every single HG. You don't. If ~anybody~ is making 10k per day at any camp, they certainly won't tell anybody where it is lol.

Also, 30k a day from Hill Giants. Let's say for easy math there's 1000 actual human players (there's more.) That's 30 platinum a day per player. We are talking about less than 30 platinum per day per player coming from Hill Giants.

At this point, daily server population is well under 1k. How many of them are leveling? How many of them are waiting for the next Fear spawn? How many of the nubs are actually leveling and vendoring their bronze and fine steel instead of powerleveling?

The actual coin injection into the economy at this point has stagnated. Its very low. This can't be calculated with paper napkin math. Even if you did, its low.

You don't need to make 10k per day to buy manastone. You can make 1500pp per day and get it in a few months. This allows you time to do other things.

The platinum from HGs isn't sprinkled across the entire population in some Bernie-esque scheme. You find a lot of the same people at HGs. My point of sharing the total plat influx is to show you close to 1 million plat is flowing in from HGs alone onto server every month. Probably a small % of players soaking up 90% of that plat.

Coin injection into economy has stagnated? What does that mean? People are still killing HGs, HHK guards, etc. Coin injection rate not increasing much, sure, but filling up a bath tub that's plugged = the tub gets fuller and fuller. If 2 million plat is created every month on Green. If that "stagnates" (AKA stays the same) where is it all going? Water... food... reagents... tink bags... a small amount of recharging... Anyone that knows EQ knows there are few plat sinks.

Total plat on Green is increasing and will continue to increase. Period.

This alone increases prices.