Ogre/Troll advice

[cornisthebest]

warrior haters are cringe

[DMN]

I'm not sure stuns from crippling add any aggro... bash stuns never increased aggro that i recall. I leveled a lot with a warrior friend with my SK back in original EQ and ya he could some pretty good damage we would let him sit in a berserk state while fear kiting. i think he would have been eating a lot of aggro if crippling blows added hate and recall it actually being quite safe.

[Cen]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure stuns from crippling add any aggro... bash stuns never increased aggro that i recall. I leveled a lot with a warrior friend with my SK back in original EQ and ya he could some pretty good damage we would let him sit in a berserk state while fear kiting. i think he would have been eating a lot of aggro if crippling blows added hate and recall it actually being quite safe.

The stuns from crippling are the same as ones from Bash. Its not a spell effect slot so the aggro is pretty insignificant.

[Kalamurv]

My personal opinion is its really not worth having healer keep you in crippling blow range until much later in game (40+ at min)....before that you don't have the hps to withstand a bad pull or streak of max dmg be fore heals land in time....plus the fact that, although the eye candy big hits look cool, you really aren't adding much dps at lower levels with it.
As for dps, warriors do far better dps than most people realize or understand. They have some of the highest skill caps in all weapon types as well as dual wield and double (triple @60) attack. The reason I think most don't realize the dps wars can actually put out is because as tanks, warriors aren't gearing themselves for dps, they gear for hp / ac and aggro. I remember on live, mind you this was around omens era, my warrior was consistently in the top 10, and quite often top 5 dps on raids (man were rogues wizzys and rangers pissed!)....before guild would get upset and wonder why I was always bidding on dps weapons....once I was pulling ahead in dps the other wars started following suit.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Kalamurv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My personal opinion is its really not worth having healer keep you in crippling blow range until much later in game (40+ at min)....before that you don't have the hps to withstand a bad pull or streak of max dmg be fore heals land in time....

Assuming the warrior isn't tanking, I don't think it's that bad? On my mid-30's ranger, the warrior is never ever getting aggro. A couple flame licks is enough to seal the deal versus other melees, excluding maybe the occasional streak from a rogue with dual Serrated Bone Dirks *sigh*

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by French Wizard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sham probably represent 50% of the server and 40% being enchanters

if you go SK you will have the same crappy spells as your nec, be desirable for a group tank and unwanted at max level

Warrior is the best bet but will require a decent amount of gear to be viable which you can probably afford

Sham and ench are both like 9-15% depending on when you do the .count all. SK aren't "unwanted" at max level so much as "not necessary" (which like half of other the classes also are). Warriors are fine but not obviously a superior choice to the others just because you said they are.

[Polycaster]

Originally Posted by French Wizard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sham probably represent 50% of the server and 40% being enchanters

if you go SK you will have the same crappy spells as your nec, be desirable for a group tank and unwanted at max level

Warrior is the best bet but will require a decent amount of gear to be viable which you can probably afford

Warriors are shit tanks, stop spreading the false 'conventional wisdom' to sound like you know anything. I'd rather have a decently geared bard as MT than a warrior.

[Cen]

What is going on here with warrior hate. Warriors are the best tank always. Snap aggro isn't the main way to tank in Everquest its mitigation and root/blind

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by Cen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is going on here with warrior hate. Warriors are the best tank always. Snap aggro isn't the main way to tank in Everquest its mitigation and root/blind

I dunno about that. Can you justify your statement? I greatly prefer snap aggro tanks in grinds. Why would a warrior be better in that circumstance? Why would we want to spend the extra effort and mana just to keep the mob from killing all of us? War mitigation doesn't make up for that ordinarily.

[Cen]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dunno about that. Can you justify your statement? I greatly prefer snap aggro tanks in grinds. Why would a warrior be better in that circumstance? Why would we want to spend the extra effort and mana just to keep the mob from killing all of us? War mitigation doesn't make up for that ordinarily.

Its not world of warcraft is why.

Warrior mitigation is better then it seems to people who haven't run all three tank classes before. Having 5-10 points over in Defense, offense, and the weapon skill being used on a yellow/even/blue con makes a huge change in the bell curve of damage and damage avoidance.

Aggro management isn't strictly done by the tank, for any of the three. SK's and Paladins have snap aggro as a utility, but its not the primary way that tanks do their job in EQ. Most of the time, a mob must be kept controlled. Now, you might ask, if a mob is always going to be rooted, why have any melee or any tanks and just not have a caster group, to which there is two points:

1. You can do that if you want and it would be pretty good
2. Rogues exist.. and to a lesser extent other melee classes.

When blinded or rooted mob attacks closest physical character to it. You can then decide who is going to take the damage, and make backstabs easy.

Is the warrior your only melee character in the group?
Then yes, an SK or a Paladin would have been better.


Warriors also do a lot more damage with the DW/DA caps and crits/crips proccing.



SK's and Paladins are great too though. I'm just saying warriors aren't the absolute worthless shit people have been saying lately. They are pretty cool. Also they get the most clickies ;p