Idea for custom content: Classic Spirit server

[Wurl]

One obvious thing for the custom server: get rid of hell levels.

[uygi]

Originally Posted by Wurl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One obvious thing for the custom server: all levels are hell levels.

FTFY

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Wurl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One obvious thing for the custom server: get rid of hell levels.

There are no hell levels.

Its an illusion.

Think David Copperfield.

[Wurl]

Another thing, it's not good to frame the soloing XP difference as a penalty. I would phrase it like "25% XP bonus for grouping". Or maybe do something like "5% XP bonus per party member" so that everyone doesn't just duo.

[Siege]

I fully support a Classic+ server that attempts to balance Classic EverQuest. I would even go one step further than you and nerf root rotting and kiting in general. Hell, I'd just get rid of all run speed buffs and make it so that Root breaks on damage like Mes. Anything to get rid of 'cheese' and make EverQuest more difficult would be fine in my book.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These changes are made with the benefit of 20 years of hindsight and are conceived with the effort of promoting maximum balance between classes with minimal modification to the game.

I get that the original devs did a lot of dumb stuff, and that they didn't predict a lot of gameplay that seems in hindsight like it should have been fairly obvious. Along those lines, I feel like removing recharging, altering many clickies, fixing patently broken things like buggy pathing, removing assorted exploits (think lev trick, zone warps, corpsing no rent items, gnome wall hacks, etc), and some balance tweaks would definitely be true to "the classic spirit."

But I think your changes miss the mark overall.

EQ classes are so obviously imbalanced that the devs couldn't possibly have actually intended them to be "balanced" in the modern understanding. Trying to do so, therefore, isn't in keeping with the spirit OR the mechanics of the game; you're basically just making a truly custom server and using the words "classic spirit" to make it sound more palatable.

And even beyond that, you have strong biases that show through in your balancing attempts. You heavily penalize solo players despite many classes having toolkits that obviously contemplated solo play? You nerf the enchanters to the ground, buff the hell out of wizards, and tweak some melee classes. But you don't address the asinine discrepancy between clerics and other healers? Between raid warriors and other raid tanks? You don't buff rogues to be more than a player mage pet who can sometimes drag corpses? Lol.



Personally as far as class balance goes, I'd limit enchanter charm to humanoids, give wizards innate crits and massively buff harvest, eliminate class exp bonuses/penalties, nerf CH (perhaps make it heal a percentage of max or something so it still is a unique, powerful spell), buff poisons damage and utility potential, give paladins significant self-healing perks, give SKs significant lifetap perks, give rangers significant archery perks. I don't know what else but I feel like that would go a long ways to evening out the classes without drastically altering their original design/vibe like totally reworking charm, moving clarity around, giving SK undead crits, etc. does. I want to say "no" to melody, but I guess I've never played a bard with it so maybe it's just a RSI relief and laziness tool more than a real adjustment to the class's power.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ classes are so obviously imbalanced that the devs couldn't possibly have actually intended them to be "balanced" in the modern understanding. Trying to do so, therefore, isn't in keeping with the spirit OR the mechanics of the game; you're basically just making a truly custom server and using the words "classic spirit" to make it sound more palatable.

And even beyond that, you have strong biases that show through in your balancing attempts. You heavily penalize solo players despite many classes having toolkits that obviously contemplated solo play? You nerf the enchanters to the ground, buff the hell out of wizards, and tweak some melee classes. But you don't address the asinine discrepancy between clerics and other healers? Between raid warriors and other raid tanks? You don't buff rogues to be more than a player mage pet who can sometimes drag corpses? Lol.

Personally as far as class balance goes, I'd limit enchanter charm to humanoids, give wizards innate crits and massively buff harvest, eliminate class exp bonuses/penalties, nerf CH (perhaps make it heal a percentage of max or something so it still is a unique, powerful spell), buff poisons damage and utility potential, give paladins significant self-healing perks, give SKs significant lifetap perks, give rangers significant archery perks. I don't know what else but I feel like that would go a long ways to evening out the classes without drastically altering their original design/vibe like totally reworking charm, moving clarity around, giving SK undead crits, etc. does. I want to say "no" to melody, but I guess I've never played a bard with it so maybe it's just a RSI relief and laziness tool more than a real adjustment to the class's power.

The idea is to not to balance the classes in the sense that every class is equally powerful, it's to simply reduce the power disparity between classes while making as few changes as possible to the game. So, no, I don't want to change Rogues or modify CH. I just want the weakest classes (Wiz, Hybrids) to get a little extra boost and knock the OP classes (Ench, Shm, Monk) down a peg. And I want to emphasize, the main point is in making as few changes as possible, otherwise the game quickly becomes unrecognizable.

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the classic "in spirit" parts, but the random buffs/nerfs to classes are very unnecessary imho.

Randomly buffing Wizards and hybrids is totally not classic in spirit. Nor is nerfing Shamans and solo players. The pet window is also not classic in spirit at all. I'd also hold off on nerfing monks until they are actually super OP (Velious).

Class balance changes are classic AF. Literally every patch was tweaking class balance in some way. The devs clearly did not want enormous power disparities between the classes. They wanted each class to be distinct and powerful within its own niche. Thought experiment: imagine the original EQ dev team in 1999-2000 had all the knowledge of EQ tactics and mechanics that we have now. Do you really think they would leave class balance the way it is, or would they make some adjustments, with some classes being buffed and some nerfed?

Also, on a more general note, it's interesting that almost all the negative feedback has been in regards to the proposed class balance changes. I can only assume that means most people are in favor of the other changes, which is what I expected.

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want the weakest classes (Wiz, Hybrids) to get a little extra boost and knock the OP classes (Ench, Shm, Monk) down a peg.

The game is supposed to be a group game.....the answer isn't "we need to make everyone who doesn't solo stomp the end game able to do that!"....

It's "everyone trivializing the game content, we should pull their power back".

And also cap the level at level 30. Then no matter how powerful you think you are, you aint. Even pet classes get super hit, since their pets are NPC pet levels.....which a player can surpass with equipment easily in being able to hit higher level things.

BOOM BOW! Make EQ hard again!

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The idea is to not to balance the classes in the sense that every class is equally powerful, it's to simply reduce the power disparity between classes while making as few changes as possible to the game. So, no, I don't want to change Rogues or modify CH. I just want the weakest classes (Wiz, Hybrids) to get a little extra boost and knock the OP classes (Ench, Shm, Monk) down a peg. And I want to emphasize, the main point is in making as few changes as possible, otherwise the game quickly becomes unrecognizable.

I guess I don't think the classes are that unbalanced. I mainly just think charm and AOE are OP, because the game was tuned for 56k modems and Pentium IIs.

I also don't think Monk is super OP until Velious raid gear. Topor is OP, but it's pretty hard to get a hold of, which makes it acceptable somehow. Also there is no reason to nerf soloing, as the hybrids and wizards can actually sorta do that, which is one of their advantages over pure melee.

I also don't think you can make all these changes AND also understand how that affects class balance enough to make specific class ability tweaks. For example, no item recharging and no mallets is a huge warrior nerf in itself, and therefore a hybrid buff.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

• Clarity removed from Enchanters and given to Wizards
• Wizards given innate spell criticals
• Paladins and SKs given innate undead criticals
• Melody implemented for Bards
• Monk AC/mitigation nerfed to post-Velious patch level
  ...
• Pet window enabled (QoL)
  ...
• Torpor overwrites runspeed buffs and drains 50 mana per tick
  ...
• -25% XP penalty for solo players

I like the classic "in spirit" parts, but the random buffs/nerfs to classes are very unnecessary imho.

Randomly buffing Wizards and hybrids is totally not classic in spirit. Nor is nerfing Shamans and solo players. The pet window is also not classic in spirit at all. I'd also hold off on nerfing monks until they are actually super OP (Velious).