System rotation target ?

[Rejuvenation]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

for those accusing me of bias or an agenda...

This is taken directly from the divinity members forums. My post in response to a guildie.

juju, you're under the assumption it would stay the same rules we have now but no variance. This assumption doesn't make sense. Furthermore, so what? even if it comes down to KSing or FTE or even rotation, i would rather all of these things than wait 4 days for a mob to spawn. It's not classic... the single rule that governed the entire direction of this server somehow doesn't apply now? what?

Things worked themselves out on live. Guilds got bigger and badder and others fell apart. It's already happened here. We're still here. We're not going anywhere, regardless of variance or not.

But, most importantly, I'm not doing this as a divinity agenda. How many more/less targets we'll get has absolutely zero bearing on why i'm trying to push this. I'm doing it because I think it's fucking stupid and it's wrong.


EDIT: for those that know me know that this isn't something new. But to come to the table or even disagree with me you'd have to be willing to do the same, and to be quite frank there's only a handful of people in the bigger guilds that would do just as i am willing to do.

I like this juju guy...He's got style.

[Pudge]

hey guys. red99 will have static timers so that everyone knows when the mob is up and it will be a pvp clusterfuck. jelly?

[Skope]

Zepp, sooner or later variance will run into a wall, especially in velious. I've thought about the ass-hattery that would ensue, in fact i've mentioned it repeatedly. But there's ways of getting by that without having to prop up a 4 day window. The fact that they're doing it for free isn't a new concept... i've been here longer than you, friend. I know that they have zero requirement to appease the bitching, but the "is it classic?" argument has been the argument that's been brought up again and again, patch day after patch day. It's the reason p99 exists in the first place. It's a mantra that's spoken at whisper volume that guides the way this server works. When steering away from it you generally had to have a very good reason; what i'm doing is questioning this reason.

Nedala, variance or not, whoever engages first gets the target. Welcome to FTE (first to engage). This doesn't change if there's a smaller or larger window, or a window at all. A guild coming 5 minutes before the spawn has just as much right as one who's been there for 3 days. Variance is independent of FTE. Variance, originally, was introduced to discourage poopsocking and it flat out didn't work. It did for a couple of weeks, but then DA quickly got to poopsocking and IB used the excuse of "if they're doing it, we have to do it too." In fact, it probably goes back even father, but if you want a P99 history lesson this isn't the forum for it.

[Nedala]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nedala, variance or not, whoever engages first gets the target. Welcome to FTE (first to engage). This doesn't change if there's a smaller or larger window, or a window at all. A guild coming 5 minutes before the spawn has just as much right as one who's been there for 3 days. Variance is independent of FTE. Variance, originally, was introduced to discourage poopsocking and it flat out didn't work. It did for a couple of weeks, but then DA quickly got to poopsocking and IB used the excuse of "if they're doing it, we have to do it too." In fact, it probably goes back even father, but if you want a P99 history lesson this isn't the forum for it.

But there you are wrong again, variance wasnt put in to stop the poopsocking it was put in to stop GM intervention, and it worked.

And then FTE was put in to stop poopsocking, and it worked.

You are aware nobody is poopsocking currently to get bosses, are you?
But here you are claiming it didn't work.

And to FTE: this is exactly the problem, No variance + FTE = 5 guilds sitting on his spawn, yes it doesnt matter who was there first and thats exactly the problem everyone will be there, and everybody will try to be the first guild to engage.

Just an example:

Guild A, B, C and D know trakanon is going to spawn. Guild A is there since a day, guild B since a couple hours guild C andD just arrived.

So, trak spawns, all guilds beat on him, he goes down in a few seconds, nobody has a clue who engaged first, a GM comes looks into the logs and awards the loot. This is how every important spawn would work, especially trak. And you seriously prefere this scenario over what we have now?

Is that what you call raiding? The guilds wouldn't even need to be capable of killing trak, since 4 other guilds are helping anyway.

[Troy]

Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are aware nobody is poopsocking currently to get bosses, are you?
But here you are claiming it didn't work.

Are you really going to sit here and say that you don't have at least one person right now in range of a boss that's due to spawn? Sure it's no longer 15 people, but it's not zero like you claim. I guess one is better than fifteen, but it's still silly and not classic.

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Variance is independent of FTE. Variance, originally, was introduced to discourage poopsocking and it flat out didn't work.

This is not correct. It DID work. There is less of both poopsocking and GM's intervening on raids as a result of variance being introduced.

Skope, you're arguing in circles: You say variance is bad, someone else says how bad an alternative would be, and then you say "if you want to know what my alternative would be, PM me," and go back to saying "it's bad & not classic, so get rid of it."

There are two ways out of this circle: either stop posting, or write out your actual alternative proposal so that people can take a look at it. Or both! You can stop posting here, and start writing up a legitimate proposal to be submitted privately to Nilbog or whoever for evaluation as an alternative to the current system. That way you don't have to deal with the oh-so-villainous TR members straw-manning you and defending your monopoly - it can be nice & quiet.

[Asher]

Yes, Big Brother is required because P99 players are all babies and cannot resolve issues on their own. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Asher

[Humwawa]

Skope, sir - I see nothing wrong with a variance on raid mobs to prohibit poopsocking, regardless of it being "true to classic" or not. I see nothing wrong with a variance now, or in the future.

Your argument is based on your belief that variance is contrary to classic experience, and that a staggered boss spawn time will conflict with Velious content for some reason. I don't believe it will. Where's the legendary, oft-referenced Strawman here?

I was in DA during the legendary poopsocking Summer. It was the inverse of competition - you raced to the mob, except the mob wasn't up yet. Still racing, but with an added 48 hours of bullshit.

This will happen again without a variance, and it will take some great diplomacy to even approach a player-controlled solution without needless, and still-present animosity.

It would take, in short, a massive amount of time and effort on the part of a few, in order to organize a system for the many. An amount of time it seems many, many posters believe shouldn't be invested in a video game, anyway.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is not correct. It DID work. There is less of both poopsocking and GM's intervening on raids as a result of variance being introduced.

Skope, you're arguing in circles: You say variance is bad, someone else says how bad an alternative would be, and then you say "if you want to know what my alternative would be, PM me," and go back to saying "it's bad & not classic, so get rid of it."

There are two ways out of this circle: either stop posting, or write out your actual alternative proposal so that people can take a look at it. Or both! You can stop posting here, and start writing up a legitimate proposal to be submitted privately to Nilbog or whoever for evaluation as an alternative to the current system. That way you don't have to deal with the oh-so-villainous TR members straw-manning you and defending your monopoly - it can be nice & quiet.

No, it didn't work. Those of us who played here last summer can vouch for this personally -- especially those in DA and IB. There was no FTE then, it was first come first serve. The only mobilization that occurred during that entire summer and part of that spring was racing to the next poopsock spot. Poopsock wasn't a valid raid technique, it was a large loophole that variance couldn't cover up.

And I'm not going to post any of my alternatives here. But i will say what's been posted, including crazy-FTE by aadill, rotation by others, are options that I'd never favor.

Anything that I would propose would go straight to nilbog/rogean or be open for discussion between those deemed worthy of it. Unfortunately, the mere nature of the p99 forums often tanks any idea of fruitful conversation down the fucking toilet.

[Dravingar]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anything that I would propose would go straight to nilbog/rogean or be open for discussion between those deemed worthy of it.