System rotation target ?

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Humwawa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Variances were put in place to dissuade the poopsock phenomenon. It was done in order to improve the server raiding scene's "quality of life."

No amount of guild legislation can change the fact that the server's population has a higher number of gamers who have seen (and want to see again) EQ's endgame. Enforcing a rotational system will bring more and more guilds to petition entry to the rotation. The raiding scene then becomes bogged down with elaborate raiding rules that put our current rule set to shame in their complexity. The game ceases to be about mobilization and becomes a beaurocracy where the rules are made by those who wish to preserve their holdings at the higher tiers of content.

I see nothing wrong with the way things are, now. Certain allowances are made on this server to preserve the quality of gameplay - allowances that are not true to classic experience. That's reasonable.

enforcing a blablabla... i never said rotation. these were your words. hence my strawman comment.

But, more importantly, i like it the way it is doesn't mean squat here. I liked having my necro be able to snarekite, unfortunately "i like" isn't a legitimate argument.

[Humwawa]

No need to be rude.

Conversely, the system is as it is, by virtue of the server admins and GMs, regardless of what you yourself want.

So there! Nyah.

[Troy]

Gotta love TR members lying about their priorities to preserve their pixel status. It is fact that with a 4-day spawn window, you will NOT consistently get chances at targets unless EQ is your #1 priority in life. Your guild can do so by just having a massive number of people such that at any hour of any day there is a raid force online, but no single individual can consistently be part of that force without prioritizing EQ over anything else. How can you guys possibly argue against this?

[Humwawa]

Even if it were the case that P99's "top raiding guilds" were built on people who did nothing but play EQ to monopolize the content... what of it?

Is it the server's obligation, is it the server's population's obligation, to ensure you see the content you want to see?

Crushbone newb groups disagree.

Bard swarmkiters disagree.

The necro at Frenzy disagrees.

The guys at Drolvarg Warlord disagree.

You get what you can accomplish. If someone wants to live in a litter-strewn basement to ensure he gets a freaking Cobalt Breastplate, is envy really the sentiment you want to express?

[Troy]

Originally Posted by Humwawa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even if it were the case that P99's "top raiding guilds" were built on people who did nothing but play EQ to monopolize the content... what of it?

It didn't work that way on live and shouldn't work that way here. The only people defending it (and justifiably so, why would they want more competition?) are the ones in said monopoly.

[Humwawa]

Troy - Who the hell says it didn't?

I've played on two different servers on Live EQ.

On Brell Serilis, the end game was controlled entirely by a council of guilds who, in retrospect, manipulated the rules to ensure their superiority. It was civilized, but it was what it was - controlled content.

On Povar, there was Triton. And there was Triton. Everything else was under their heel, once RA fell to dust (through a particularly foul subterfuge on the part of Triton's leadership).

There's always a guild, or a couple warring guilds, who fight over the top tier content, either through brute force like P99, or through politics. You're looking at the game through rose-tinted glasses, I think.

[dragolyche]

Originally Posted by Humwawa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troy - Who the hell says it didn't?

I've played on two different servers on Live EQ.

On Brell Serilis, the end game was controlled entirely by a council of guilds who, in retrospect, manipulated the rules to ensure their superiority. It was civilized, but it was what it was - controlled content.

On Povar, there was Triton. And there was Triton. Everything else was under their heel, once RA fell to dust (through a particularly foul subterfuge on the part of Triton's leadership).

There's always a guild, or a couple warring guilds, who fight over the top tier content, either through brute force like P99, or through politics. You're looking at the game through rose-tinted glasses, I think.

Not on karana server. System rotation forbidden that and everyone were happy. GM too, not steal/drama about target etcc.... This system keep everyone quiet.

Only zergers were not happy.

[Troy]

Originally Posted by Humwawa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troy - Who the hell says it didn't?

I've played on two different servers on Live EQ.

On Brell Serilis, the end game was controlled entirely by a council of guilds who, in retrospect, manipulated the rules to ensure their superiority. It was civilized, but it was what it was - controlled content.

On Povar, there was Triton. And there was Triton. Everything else was under their heel, once RA fell to dust (through a particularly foul subterfuge on the part of Triton's leadership).

There's always a guild, or a couple warring guilds, who fight over the top tier content, either through brute force like P99, or through politics. You're looking at the game through rose-tinted glasses, I think.

In classic any guild could show up at spawn time and take a shot, sure people might not like it but GM's weren't going to enforce those player-made rules.

I play a tracking class and am not willing to spend 90+% of my play time sitting semi-AFK hitting track waiting to trigger a mass communication to the guild. Nor am I going to leave work to log on when a boss spawns, or wake up in the middle of the night, or leave dinner, or leave rehearsal, or drop anything I'm doing that is not playing EQ. A player like me could still see a lot of bosses in classic. On P99 it's unlikely I'll see one until every hardcore player is fully equipped with the best Velious gear.

So yes, I want the rules changed to something that will benefit me. That something, however, IS HOW THE GAME ACTUALLY WAS. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Skope]

Nobody is saying rotation -- get that thought out of your head. I'm certainly not. I don't want a rotation. The game doesn't cease to be about mobilization when we created this wacked-out version of raiding and mobilization in the first place. Mobilization isn't waiting 4 days for something to spawn and 15 minutes of mobilizing. Like i told hobby, that's what I'll call unnecessary p99 behavior.

You're discussing hypothetical alternatives, none of which i suggested or agree with, in order to prove your point that they're better than the current system. That's the epitome of a straw man argument. I didn't say, nor do i agree with your alternatives. What I'm doing is telling you the current system is broken and will need fixing sooner or later without listing my alternatives here -- if you want them, just PM me. But if you want to argue with me, do so on the merit of what I'm presenting, not via hypothetical scenarios which you think I would put forth.

[Humwawa]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I'm doing is telling you the current system is broken

This is where we disagree.

I don't say I like it. I actually liked the beaurocratic method.

I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is, however, but I'll respect your opinion that it is.