SK Troll/Ogre INT or STA starting stat debate. Confused :(

[Xruptor]

Originally Posted by Siege [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've rolled 3 Troll SKs over the years. My first was in retail, which I rolled on day one, and my other two are on Blue and Green.

Based on my past experience playing Troll SK, I put all of my starting points into Intelligence when I rolled a new one on Green. It made sense to me since I rarely die before blowing through my mana pool. I don't plan on raiding much, if at all, so there's no reason for me to assume that I'll ever hit the Intelligence cap, and Troll melee stats are already stellar. SKs end up getting twice as much mana (10) per point of Intelligence than they get hit points (5.2) per point of Stamina by the time the level cap is increased to 60 so it seemed like the natural choice.

The argument for putting all starting points into Stamina is sound, but only if you plan on focusing more on the end game, which means raiding. For every other aspect of the game, I think mana is a more decisive factor than hit points, especially when soloing. Being able to grab another tool out of your fairly robust toolbox will come in handy more often than a hit point boost.

Thanks for the response. It helps a lot. He ended up going with full INT on his Troll SK after carefully considering what everyone has said.


Here is another question for you all. Does diety mean much for my friend as a Troll SK? He picked Innoruk but doesn't know if that will affect him greatly in other cities. Where would he be KoS? Can he enter Oggok and Neriak with no issues? What difference would it have made if he picked CZ?

[Gatorsmash]

Originally Posted by Xruptor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the response. It helps a lot. He ended up going with full INT on his Troll SK after carefully considering what everyone has said.


Here is another question for you all. Does diety mean much for my friend as a Troll SK? He picked Innoruk but doesn't know if that will affect him greatly in other cities. Where would he be KoS? Can he enter Oggok and Neriak with no issues? What difference would it have made if he picked CZ?

Yes. But not what you think it would be for. If you pick Inny you cant get any racial made armor since trolls never had their's put in game so you are stuck with Ogre stuff which only comes in Cazic or Rallo's flavors.

[Xruptor]

Originally Posted by Gatorsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes. But not what you think it would be for. If you pick Inny you cant get any racial made armor since trolls never had their's put in game so you are stuck with Ogre stuff which only comes in Cazic or Rallo's flavors.

So there is no Troll Inny armor but if he went CZ there would be troll armor? He doesn't really want to wear ogre stuff lol. He wants to stick to troll. So I'm assuming he has to reroll to Troll SK CZ then? He is currently only level 3 so it's not much of a big deal.

Though to be fair he has been thinking of switching to Dark Elf SK. Even though everyone said they are weak choice for SK and leveling up will be a pain. Most say if you aren't going Troll/Ogre go Human instead (for small race). Eh lets see what he does.

Originally Posted by BlackBellamy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Initial stat allocation means dick for the raiding end game. People talk about raiding oh hit points this or mana that, yeah great. I want to hear from any lv 60 SKs here about their tragic stories from a raid that went sour because they were missing a hundred hit points or two hundred mana. Yeah we almost had Vox but muh hundred....

That's just ridiculous min-max theoretical stuff, in practice the application is minimal. It's just perception. Literally no one outside the toon is going to notice Player X has a 100 less or more hp in a situation where you're getting quad hits of 600 or hiroshima nukes.

The only real effect your initial stat allocation has any effect is the mid-game, where the level-based formulas actually let you notice the effect, and you don't have super gear yet to plug your holes. And it's really a reflection of your chosen play style. I like to tank in groups and I also like to sit there by myself and process blues. In the first situation I never need mana. In the second mana is my bottleneck.

Having said that I regret my initial stat allocation and wish I went with the most hardcore choice: full AGI.

This is part of the reason why he is considering switching to Dark Elf Shadow Knight. Even though most say that's a TERRIBLE idea from what I've read/seen.

[Gatorsmash]

Originally Posted by Xruptor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So there is no Troll Inny armor but if he went CZ there would be troll armor? He doesn't really want to wear ogre stuff lol. He wants to stick to troll. So I'm assuming he has to reroll to Troll SK CZ then? He is currently only level 3 so it's not much of a big deal.

Though to be fair he has been thinking of switching to Dark Elf SK. Even though everyone said they are weak choice for SK and leveling up will be a pain. Most say if you aren't going Troll/Ogre go Human instead (for small race). Eh lets see what he does.

This is part of the reason why he is considering switching to Dark Elf Shadow Knight. Even though most say that's a TERRIBLE idea from what I've read/seen.

It's all ogre- troll wearable including the weapons, I -think- it falls between raid drops and group dropped gear, but its been awhile. The only other thing is picking cazic makes the Kunark quest stuff grind a bit easier. Believe Inny sk was bottom of the rung on faction.

The DE choice really falls on the fashion quest side of things just because every stat and racial ability for ogre-troll lines up perfectly with Shadowknight. Dark elves dont really bring anything to the table better. Their intelligence is higher, but your not nuking shit down, your banging on it with melee weapons and the Darkelf is 48 points (troll) and 70! Points (ogre) behind, which relates directly to your attack #, and damage.

Edit- and you can get the guise if DE is really that important.

[Xruptor]

Originally Posted by Gatorsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's all ogre- troll wearable including the weapons, I -think- it falls between raid drops and group dropped gear, but its been awhile. The only other thing is picking cazic makes the Kunark quest stuff grind a bit easier. Believe Inny sk was bottom of the rung on faction.

The DE choice really falls on the fashion quest side of things just because every stat and racial ability for ogre-troll lines up perfectly with Shadowknight. Dark elves dont really bring anything to the table better. Their intelligence is higher, but your not nuking shit down, your banging on it with melee weapons and the Darkelf is 48 points (troll) and 70! Points (ogre) behind, which relates directly to your attack #, and damage.

Edit- and you can get the guise if DE is really that important.

Thanks that is really helpful. He got his Troll SK Inny to level 5. I think he's good with his race choice and diety. He was just a bit worried about his choice of Race/Stats and Diety. He knows folks keep saying go Ogre for FSI and stats, but he still prefers the Troll. On top of that only primary reason I think he was going DE (although I'd have to ask him again) is that it's a small race and he has a fondness for evil races like the DE's. But he's cool with the Troll. (Well for now until he bothers me YET AGAIN about race LOL).

[Brut]

Ogre and Troll SKs are not friendly, shaman guild might hate trolls as well. Neriak also some areas, like the clothie casters are likely hostile. It's not too hard to avoid their areas though.

There's not much difference for evils regarding deity since they're just as hated by other races either which way. Troll SKs it only really affects cultural armor sets years from now, since they don't get the troll Shm clicky idol either.

[Gustoo]

End game your stamina is pegged to the max, intelligence is usually not pegged.

I don't see a good argument for not going full intelligence on an SK. Like I said before an SK without spells is just a shit version of a warrior.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

End game your stamina is pegged to the max, intelligence is usually not pegged.

I don't see a good argument for not going full intelligence on an SK. Like I said before an SK without spells is just a shit version of a warrior.

Because not everyone is playing their SK to the end game to max STA? I've talked to raiding troll SKs that still wish they had more stamina. People talk about maxing stats in velious being a cakewalk. It's really not unless you're raiding pretty hardcore.

In 99.9% situations a slightly bigger INT pool doesn't mean dick on a SK, it's about the mana regen. They're not like clerics and other casters on raids where you really need that 100% - 0% mana range.

[Brut]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

End game your stamina is pegged to the max, intelligence is usually not pegged.

I don't see a good argument for not going full intelligence on an SK. Like I said before an SK without spells is just a shit version of a warrior.

And an SK with spells is just a shit version of a necromancer.
If I wanted to fear kite and lifetap mobs and solo, I'd rolled a solo class for it. SK in group environment doesn't run out of mana, since the aggro spells cost nothing.

[BlackBellamy]

Initial stat allocation means dick for the raiding end game. People talk about raiding oh hit points this or mana that, yeah great. I want to hear from any lv 60 SKs here about their tragic stories from a raid that went sour because they were missing a hundred hit points or two hundred mana. Yeah we almost had Vox but muh hundred....

That's just ridiculous min-max theoretical stuff, in practice the application is minimal. It's just perception. Literally no one outside the toon is going to notice Player X has a 100 less or more hp in a situation where you're getting quad hits of 600 or hiroshima nukes.

The only real effect your initial stat allocation has any effect is the mid-game, where the level-based formulas actually let you notice the effect, and you don't have super gear yet to plug your holes. And it's really a reflection of your chosen play style. I like to tank in groups and I also like to sit there by myself and process blues. In the first situation I never need mana. In the second mana is my bottleneck.

Having said that I regret my initial stat allocation and wish I went with the most hardcore choice: full AGI.