Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[loramin]

Wow, thread got moved to RnF mid-post [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wasn't able to edit and correct; this should be:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ie. they pretend person A was arguing ...

[bubur]

just sounds like what someone would say watching an enc through a window

get behind the wheel of a classic-geared 50 chanter with no clarity and try it. its not easy to clean out lguk by oneself on either a necro or enc. yeah a handful of people have gotten good at it. there are some shamans and druids that do pretty well too. as for the raid parses, havent seem em. dont kno, but yeah i pretty much believe it if we're talking about the chanter pets in aggregate

[DMN]

Druid bear pets? You can't be fucking serious?

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Druid bear pets? You can't be fucking serious?

Ever seen a good druid charm monkeys in PoF?

Didn't think so.

[Vormotus]

This thread has me like this [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[vossiewulf]

With just a few minutes of searching I was able to find some relevant info that showed what enchanters were thinking and the testing results they had from before Kunark. I have to think an actual determined search would at least be able to confirm that we are or are not out of alignment with the original game.

I mean we are, but nothing someone says today is terribly relevant other than to suggest that digging for less squishy data is called for, as that's the only way to resolve the disagreement.

[Ligma]

The information has already been presented like 700 posts ago. People just really like to complain.

[WaffleztheAndal]

I’m sure Nilbog and Co are keeping an eye on the situation. They have enacted unclassic raid changes to preserve balance before. If need be they will do so again.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In case you didn't notice, Loramin is a very happy, positive, and friendly troll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This specific kind of troll hides its nature by pretending it lives under a rainbow, but its still just a troll.

Thanks? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look, people can attack me personally all they want. According to the forum rules those are supposed to stay in RnF, but /shrug.

Here's the thing though: attacking me personally won't change how EverQuest was back in 1999-2001.

Originally Posted by WaffleztheAndal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m sure Nilbog and Co are keeping an eye on the situation. They have enacted unclassic raid changes to preserve balance before. If need be they will do so again.

That is mostly correct, but look: Nilbog is only human, as a dedicated "classicist" he's only got two inputs to make anything in the game classic: evidence and player feedback. And because he cares so much about classic, he depends on them heavily. Thus, unclassic Enchanters make perfect sense: no one has surfaced obvious evidence of what P99 has wrong, so he hasn't fixed them yet.

But crucially, he doesn't just go by evidence! Take the AoE nerf: Nilbog did not retreat to a mountain, surveil the game and all available evidence, and then decide "The Overthere wasn't like this in 2000!"

... and can you blame him? If you're dedicated to classic and it's been 20 years since you saw live OT, you're not just going to change it without evidence based on your 20-year old feels. He needed the community to weigh in and say "this needs fixing to be classic" (and also, in that specific case, to be manageable for the all-volunteer staff, as AoE fights used up a lot of their time).

So once again, even though I believe Nilbog isn't a fanboy and cares far more about classic than me or probably anyone else in this thread ... I don't think we can just wait for him to look up from the code and decide that because the big picture isn't "1999", he needs to change it. I think we need to "make some noise", to encourage him to find a new, creative, and above all more classic set of mechanics.

Because again, without getting into the weeds of an specific mechanic change, and losing "the forest from the trees" ... it should be obvious to all who have played here and on live that P99 Enchanters are not yet classic.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look, people can attack me personally all they want. According to the forum rules those are supposed to stay in RnF, but /shrug.

Here's the thing though: attacking me personally won't change how EverQuest was back in 1999-2001.



That is mostly correct, but look: Nilbog is only human, as a dedicated "classicist" he's only got two inputs to make anything in the game classic: evidence and player feedback. And because he cares so much about classic, he depends on them heavily. Thus, unclassic Enchanters make perfect sense: no one has surfaced obvious evidence of what P99 has wrong, so he hasn't fixed them yet.

But crucially, he doesn't just go by evidence! Take the AoE nerf: Nilbog did not retreat to a mountain, surveil the game and all available evidence, and then decide "The Overthere wasn't like this in 2000!"

... and can you blame him? If you're dedicated to classic and it's been 20 years since you saw live OT, you're not just going to change it without evidence based on your 20-year old feels. He needed the community to weigh in and say "this needs fixing to be classic" (and also, in that specific case, to be manageable for the all-volunteer staff, as AoE fights used up a lot of their time).

So once again, even though I believe Nilbog isn't a fanboy and cares far more about classic than me or probably anyone else in this thread ... I don't think we can just wait for him to look up from the code and decide that because the big picture isn't "1999", he needs to change it. I think we need to "make some noise", to encourage him to find a new, creative, and above all more classic set of mechanics.

Because again, without getting into the weeds of an specific mechanic change, and losing "the forest from the trees" ... it should be obvious to all who have played here and on live that P99 Enchanters are not yet classic.

You’re missing the part where there’s a massive difference between essentially killing all the mobs in a zone (or in the case of the over there, all the mobs within the specific area of the zone dedicated to that level) at once and Enchanters soloing single camps lol. The former is zone disruption, the latter is normal EQ which people just like to whine about.

By the end of the pre-Kunark days, I saw tons of Enchanters charm soloing on many different servers during the course of my CSR duties. You’re simply wrong.