Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[Rooj]

No one hates Enchanters.

No one hates Enchanters charming.

No one is saying remove charm from the game.

What people are saying is that it's more than just overpowered, that it has a massive impact on the game, grouping, raiding, and the economy/looting by leaps and bounds further than pretty much anything else in the game. And when I say massive, I am talking about 1 Enchanter equating to several+ members' DPS in a group.

Charming is a neat gameplay feature that you don't see too much of in modern MMOs, and I think every player appreciates the playstyle being a part of Everquest. Not a single person here wants to see it removed, players just want to see its effect reduced to a state that feels in-line with Classic Everquest and Classic Feel, AKA the P99 Staff's vision.

Funny story, just read that apparently in Omens of War charm was changed so that mobs only did around 50% of their damage and couldn't be hasted, which is hilariously pretty much exactly what my suggestion for fixing it was going to be. Responses to the news basically amounted up to "too long overdue," which was too true. Looks like it didn't stop people from charming, of course! (because that's how stupidly broken it is)

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

players just want to see its effect reduced to a state that feels in-line with Classic Everquest and Classic Feel, AKA the P99 Staff's vision.

Ah yes. How could I be so mistaken about all of this. When nilbog says he wants to make classic changes to recreate classic eq, what he obviously must have actually meant was he'll make unclassic changes to recreate a different game that feels kinda similar to what classic eq felt like to some people.

[Rooj]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ah yes. How could I be so mistaken about all of this. When nilbog says he wants to make classic changes to recreate classic eq, what he obviously must have actually meant was he'll make unclassic changes to recreate a different game that feels kinda similar to what classic eq felt like to some people.

I'm pretty sure you're not new here.

Over the past 10 years the staff has said AND DONE unclassic changes to fix things to be more in line with Classic Feel over Classic Mechanics. Not sure what you're getting at here.

[jacob54311]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What people are saying is that it's more than just overpowered, that it has a massive impact on the game, grouping, raiding, and the economy/looting by leaps and bounds further than pretty much anything else in the game. And when I say massive, I am talking about 1 Enchanter equating to several+ members' DPS in a group.

Exactly. We aren't talking about Chanters just leading a group in DPS. They are out damaging entire groups, just about, in many situations. No one expects perfect class balance. That's not what people are talking about.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by jacob54311 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly. We aren't talking about Chanters just leading a group in DPS. They are out damaging entire groups, just about, in many situations. No one expects perfect class balance. That's not what people are talking about.

Okay so what we’re hearing is you guys have now reverted to simply saying a class needs to be nerfed in a non classic manner because you have no evidence that charm isn’t otherwise accurate to what it was on live.

I think we can move this to resolved since we know they aren’t just gonna randomly nerf a class because you’re whining

[jacob54311]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay so what we’re hearing is you guys have now reverted to simply saying a class needs to be nerfed in a non classic manner because you have no evidence that charm isn’t otherwise accurate to what it was on live.

I think we can move this to resolved since we know they aren’t just gonna randomly nerf a class because you’re whining

I'd say we need to look very closely at the evidence. This is having a big effect on how the game is being played.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by jacob54311 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd say we need to look very closely at the evidence. This is having a big effect on how the game is being played.

I'm sure the staff did look closely at evidence when they created charm and probably more than once in the years since. It's not like people haven't had YEARS to bring this matter up and figure it out already, right? This isn't the first time people got annoyed at charm being stupidly powerful.

Plus the most recent evidence posted in this thread, which is also the only data that I recall seeing in here, supports that p99 charm durations are probably about right.

The issue is that the people who want charm nerfed want charm nerfed regardless of whether it was actually this powerful in classic. They aren't interested in sticking to the classic mechanic, despite that being the repeatedly-stated goal of the staff and p1999, unless the classic mechanic is coincidentally the way they want it to be. So they just keep arguing in circles, trying to get what they want by being loud instead of being correct.

[Rooj]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay so what we’re hearing is you guys have now reverted to simply saying a class needs to be nerfed in a non classic manner because you have no evidence that charm isn’t otherwise accurate to what it was on live.

I think we can move this to resolved since we know they aren’t just gonna randomly nerf a class because you’re whining

For me, this was never about evidence and things working or not working like they did back then and honestly I don't think it was for many others here either. I think the inaccuracy arguments mostly came from the fact that Live era charm use wasn't as widespread as it is on P99, so people assume something is wrong, and that's the logical first guess, that spells or stats or resists and the charm formula aren't functioning properly. I've stated before I personally don't think it's all THAT far off. (though I do personally believe that all or most mobs on P99 are sharing some sort of static Magic Resist value, and that makes it so charming is much more accessible than it was on Live because the mobs that are supposed to be more resistant, aren't)

For me, and surely others, this is about mathematics and Classic Feel. It's not about a class being overpowered or being able to solo, it's about to what EXTENT that overpoweredness is, and the impact that it has on the game and its community.

If discovering more accurate formulas and impact of stats and all the other variables is part of making charm have Classic Feel, then so be it.

If a flat out nerf to charmed mob damage is part of making charm have Classic Feel, then so be it.

Charm is no different from any other mechanic in the game, if it is causing TOO much of an issue, like all of the other issues that the staff have implemented unclassic changes for, then you're not going to convince me that the staff won't consider changes.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For me, this was never about evidence and things working or not working like they did back then and honestly I don't think it was for many others here either. I think the inaccuracy arguments mostly came from the fact that Live era charm use wasn't as widespread as it is on P99, so people assume something is wrong, and that's the logical first guess, that spells or stats or resists and the charm formula aren't functioning properly. I've stated before I personally don't think it's all THAT far off. (though I do personally believe that all or most mobs on P99 are sharing some sort of static Magic Resist value, and that makes it so charming is much more accessible than it was on Live because the mobs that are supposed to be more resistant, aren't)

For me, and surely others, this is about mathematics and Classic Feel. It's not about a class being overpowered or being able to solo, it's about to what EXTENT that overpoweredness is, and the impact that it has on the game and its community.

If discovering more accurate formulas and impact of stats and all the other variables is part of making charm have Classic Feel, then so be it.

If a flat out nerf to charmed mob damage is part of making charm have Classic Feel, then so be it.

Charm is no different from any other mechanic in the game, if it is causing TOO much of an issue, like all of the other issues that the staff have implemented unclassic changes for, then you're not going to convince me that the staff won't consider changes.

K.

55+ pages of this rambling nonsensical stuff. I think you’ve said your piece and maybe the staff will take the time to read through all of this and then throw it in the trash. But they probably won’t even read it.

I think we should end this thread now

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm is no different from any other mechanic in the game, if it is causing TOO much of an issue, like all of the other issues that the staff have implemented unclassic changes for, then you're not going to convince me that the staff won't consider changes.

What other unclassic class balance changes have they done? I'm honestly drawing a blank.