Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Obrae [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Find evidence that it was working as it is working today. The problem is the implementation actually in p99. It as never been proven to work like this before so why are we having charm so reliable here ?

It is implemented on P99 the way it is, because the devs decided so. If you have proof they have made a mistake, provide it and I'm sure they will look into it.

Anything else is speculation and a mere waste of bandwidth.

[Aeaolena]

Playing an Enchanter for the first time here.

This may have already been said - but there's a lot of things enchanters know now about strategy, 20 years later, that likely true-classic enchanters may have fumbled with.

I know if I want a charm to last longest while in a group, I need to wear some cha gear, find a barely green mob, tash that mob, and put it farther from me on /pet guard here so I have time to stand and recharm it when it breaks, have rune up, etc. Do we know that beginning enchanters in 1999 classic knew this?

Kind of like when Halo came out one player rose above all the rest. Strafing backwards around walls, taking ammo packs before other players had a chance to get them,etc. It changed the way future players played. Now those things are standard in first-person-shooters. I'm not saying enchanters aren't great in classic, just pointing out that they have advantage of learning from 20 years of enchanter mistakes.

TL: DR - those pets are green to your enchanter, that's why they are lasting longer.

[Obrae]

Originally Posted by Aeaolena [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Playing an Enchanter for the first time here.

This may have already been said - but there's a lot of things enchanters know now about strategy, 20 years later, that likely true-classic enchanters may have fumbled with.

I know if I want a charm to last longest while in a group, I need to wear some cha gear, find a barely green mob, tash that mob, and put it farther from me on /pet guard here so I have time to stand and recharm it when it breaks, have rune up, etc. Do we know that beginning enchanters in 1999 classic knew this?

Kind of like when Halo came out one player rose above all the rest. Strafing backwards around walls, taking ammo packs before other players had a chance to get them,etc. It changed the way future players played. Now those things are standard in first-person-shooters. I'm not saying enchanters aren't great in classic, just pointing out that they have advantage of learning from 20 years of enchanter mistakes.

TL: DR - those pets are green to your enchanter, that's why they are lasting longer.

People were better than us back then, we are doing great because we are riding on the shoulders of people that played before us. P99 is just cheese and abuse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Swish]

Get some solid proof up and they'll change it I'm sure. My personal experience based on starting an enchanter in December 1999 on Prexus was one of wanting level 12 because another enchanter I met in Felwithe was telling me about charm and how good it was.

I got into the 20s, and found it easier to charm in groups because you could always rely on another mob being there whereas you could always run out of tiny daggers (1999/2000 logic). Plus it meant venturing to Highkeep to buy the spells.

[bubur]

i also recall a lot of people charming mobs into buggy hilarity and using them to set loose the havoc of PoD on guards due to faction mattering for charmed pets or something. i guess thats kind of unrelated, but yeah, charming was .. different, if nothing else

it wasn't as widespread, but bards and necros could also fear kite things into corners and free xp. that must have been efficient, but no one told me bout it. it did happen though, even if a lot of us don't remember it.. charm may have been similar, may not. dont know for sure, needs citation

[Cen]

Originally Posted by bubur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i also recall a lot of people charming mobs into buggy hilarity and using them to set loose the havoc of PoD on guards due to faction mattering for charmed pets or something. i guess thats kind of unrelated, but yeah, charming was .. different, if nothing else

it wasn't as widespread, but bards and necros could also fear kite things into corners and free xp. that must have been efficient, but no one told me bout it. it did happen though, even if a lot of us don't remember it.. charm may have been similar, may not. dont know for sure, needs citation

Here is the low down, because I used this bug on Rallos Zek to do bad things.

In classic, Charm had an interesting operation, in that any NPC you conned a certain faction to would con this way to your pet. This meant an aimable guard would now treat your pet as an amiable ally. Guards will assist the aggroed pet when you send him at Priest of Discord, and they don't assist Priest of Discord. Now on Rallos Zek, this extended to players. Not everyone learned of this bug, but you could send a guard from miles and miles away at any player you were in PvP range with, so id take a rat and bring him to guard, send him at an enemy player I could see very far away, and they'd haul ass over there to kill the player, who would be utterly confused.

[One Tin Soldier]

Not that my 2 cents really matters but since this thread is mostly just based on anecdotal evidence I'll toss mine in anyway. I started in late 1999 and played past velious. I know with certainty that enchanters did not use charm very much at all back then.

As to why they didn't I can't say for certain. I suppose it could have been, as some in this thread have theorized, that the average intelligence of the human race was lower in those years. Or it could be, as those of the opposing viewpoint have suggested, that charm simply didn't work as well back then, however preposterous that might sound. I couldn't prove anything either way.

One other thing I'll add because someone mentioned it early in this discussion was that the lull/calm line of spells also didn't work very well in old EQ. Again I can only offer my anecdotal evidence but I am absolutely certain that this is true. My main up through velious was a paladin so I had those spells. I know that they were so unreliable that I wouldn't even try using them on a group with more than three mobs. Usually I would only try it if there were only two mobs near each other.

Calm got resisted a lot and when mobs resisted they would agro so it wasn't safe to even try using it on a large group. I never actually kept track but it seemed to me that it got resisted at least 50% of the time (no proof though). It was so unreliable that I usually wouldn't even keep it memorized even if I was pulling.

Some time later on they did change something that made that line of spells work much better but that was after I had retired my paladin which was after Luclin came out. I don't remember exactly when it changed but I know it was at least after Luclin. I also don't know what they changed that made those spells work better. It might have been a change directly on those spells or it might have had something to do with MR of mobs in general.

Oh, and while were talking about classic/not classic stuff. The way mobs flee is not classic on P99. Back in the day when a mob was fleeing it would run in a straight line forever. That is why it was possible to fear things into walls and then just stand behind them beating on them. It doesn't work that way on p99.

[Buellen]

Some more charm information

1999 post everlore. Beguile spell discussion last post

https://web.archive.org/web/20010714...Whispers&type=


In groups have your tanks between you and the pet so they can attempt
to intercept and taunt when it breaks. It may take several rounds for
them to get the former pet off you, but at least they should be able to
taunt the non-charmed one away.

Really talented enchanters can even solo mobs of three or more by
charming and using the pet to attack one mob while they themselves
root and nuke the third (or even entrance a fourth). This is a little
like juggling knives - very impressive if done well, but very bloody
unless everything goes just right [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Requires a very cool head and
fast and correct casting to keep all four knives in the air (or mobs off
of you as the cast may be).

All in all, a very fun and useful spell that is dangerous if
you don't know what you're doing.


other post in this spell discuss how short this spell last even with high cha 182 <shrug> dont know what to say .

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Buellen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In groups have your tanks between you and the pet so they can attempt
to intercept and taunt when it breaks.

This is so cute but it gives a decent idea of the state of the EQ knowledge back then.

Also keep in mind that the enchanters (just like any int caster) back then went for INT, not CHA.

[Mercius]

watching the imp protector do half of naggys health on green was pretty laughable, that's how reliable charm is here