Instead of arguing over Ogre FSI, which class is Ogre best at?

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troll regen provides +1800 HP per hour from levels 20-49. That's if you're sitting the whole time. Realistically in practice it would be more like +1200 per hour at best since you spend a lot of time fighting and running around while solo.

Look at a warrior once. simple, straight forward, maybe a little masochistic. it's going to have it's downtime between kills reduced by half. Ask any warrior who solo'd any significant period throughout vanilla just how much time you will spend on your ass? Waaay more than 50%.

And again the 20% isn't just regen. A more appropriate question in this thread would be: do trolls kill 5% faster than ogres? I think they unquestionably do for the majority of "vanilla 50". Then it's going to depend on class. And there is the reality we all know, they will eventually hit 50 and that exp penalty is virtually irrelevant. there is a whole freaking year before the level cap is going to be lifted.

[Noselacri]

It takes a pretty long time before the realistically available gear can raise your stats to the point where ogres don't have a huge advantage over other tank races. Especially when you consider that even once those stats are technically cappable for, say, a human, an ogre could just gear into a different stat and maintain that aggregate bonus. It's really not until Velious endgame that you just have so many stats on your gear that the racial naturals no longer matter. It's possible for other races to max a stat before then, but that requires gearing specifically for this at the cost of other stats.

Ogres have like fully 50% higher melee stats throughout most of Everquest. For vanilla in particular, the kind of gear you'd have to wear to cap your stamina on a non-large race is pretty awful, you certainly won't do it in planar or whatever you might otherwise wish to be wearing. Dwarf is the only decent non-large race for melee, and they're still -40 strength, -32 strength, +20 dexterity compared to ogres. Agility is not a very useful stat so the agile races don't make up for it in any real way, nor is their agility advantage anywhere near as big as the strength and stamina advantage of ogres.

So an ogre warrior can start with 140 strength, 132 stamina, 95 dexterity. That's a seriously excellent baseline. A dwarf could start with 100/100/115 which sounds a lot less exciting, and you'd need about +100 str and stam from gear in order to cap out with buffs. That's not happening in vanilla. Probably not happening in Kunark, either. The ogre might end up with capped str/stam and higher dex than the dwarf thanks to the freedom to gear for dex. Even when you disregard FSI, the race is just objectively superior until Velious raiding. While capping strength isn't intensely important for tanks, it's still nice.

Shadowknight is the quintessential ogre class. They benefit fully from the stats and from the FSI. Warriors don't get that much out of FSI, it's not like it reduces your "DPS uptime" by a significant amount. For shamans it's heavily contingent on whether or not you intend to be a trophy soloer; if your MO is root-rotting, FSI does very little for you. In groups, while it can help when you take aggro, it's not a constant advantage either. You'll probably spend 90% of your time doing things where FSI is irrelevant, so while I'd personally still go ogre shaman, it's not such a big deal. The strength and stamina aren't nearly as interesting for a shaman, in part because any race you pick (except iksar) will have it.

[Gustoo]

Yep then it is pure channeling AKA the best.

Fact is that even on servers where it mattered (red 99) non ogre SK's did great.

I think the only mob and class race combo that you really NEED to be an ogre is a shaman wanting to solo lodizel.

Otherwise choose your favorite race and be a good player and you will be OK.

[Cen]

I think ive decided that SK is the ogres best class. I now realize it fully utalizes all of their abilities. The FSI for a casting tank, plus Slam isnt wasted as much as it is with Warrior (stun kick alternative) and shaman (stuck at 0 bash modifier). SK uses ogre racials 100% and all the SK abilities like hide and UV spells arent wasted since ogre doesn't get. Nice!

[uygi]

Originally Posted by Cen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think ive decided that SK is the ogres best class. I now realize it fully utalizes all of their abilities. The FSI for a casting tank, plus Slam isnt wasted as much as it is with Warrior (stun kick alternative) and shaman (stuck at 0 bash modifier). SK uses ogre racials 100% and all the SK abilities like hide and UV spells arent wasted since ogre doesn't get. Nice!

So... you're not wrong. Ogre perks are probably realized most fully with SK. But in raid terms, an ogre warrior is significantly better than any other warrior. In raid terms, an ogre SK is more or less just another SK... unless that SK is a raid tank (which, to be fair, pre-Kunark they often are). Like, certainly in Kunark and Velious, the critical ogre role is warrior. Could also easily argue that the best solo ogre, making best use of ogre benefits, is Shaman. SKs cast the same quick, very low levels spells 97% of the time in combat.

[Trollhide]

FSI is the most overhyped ability in the game, and you're missing out on the true min/max stat: the innate raw sexual charisma of trolls.

Fight me.

[Madbad]

Just tested.

While I have an ogre's physique, I do not have frontal stun immunity.

[bum3]

Get a friend create a ogre lvl 1 warrior and a troll level 1 warrior.. duel over and over... ogre wins 65% of the time. I know from experience dueling a 12 year old who wouldn't submit to my ogre superiority. This proves nothing. But it's fun.