Game Mechanics: AoE spells should only hit limited targets until September 1999 patch era

[DMN]

Kendrick and Kalaran were largely consider the most knowledgeable players for their classes back in the day and (some might even say the game in general). Other than azmodeus those two were the only players virtually everyone knew/heard of back in the day. You really couldn't pick a worse person to dismiss as some ignoramus.

And your video about AoEing on povar... did you see where they are? We are talking about early classic, usually called "vanilla". hence not including kunark and beyond.

And the one dude clearly says improved spellS, despite only having one at 24. That gives the impression he may have cast multiple.

[Dolalin]

I'm done humoring Vyal, it's time to just dismiss him as a troll with an agenda. Because that's what he is.

[DMN]

1. Pre-kunark I never saw a bard kiting more than 3-4 mobs.
2. Pre-kunark I never saw a single bard talking about swarm kiting for than 3-4 mobs either
3. I kept close track of the first level 50s on most servers and don't ever recall a bard being first. (was virtually always a necro or a druid, or something like a "guild cleric" being played 24-7 by 3-4 different people.)
4. The more knowledgeable bards did use a much more complicated way to get exp fast on a bard, which involved kiting 3-4 mobs and mixing up charming and having them beat each other, similar to how necro/enchanters charm-kill stuff. Why would they resort to this much more complicated scheme if they could simply swarm kite?

[Vyal]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Pre-kunark I never saw a bard kiting more than 3-4 mobs.
2. Pre-kunark I never saw a single bard talking about swarm kiting for than 3-4 mobs either
3. I kept close track of the first level 50s on most servers and don't ever recall a bard being first. (was virtually always a necro or a druid, or something like a "guild cleric" being played 24-7 by 3-4 different people.)
4. The more knowledgeable bards did use a much more complicated way to get exp fast on a bard, which involved kiting 3-4 mobs and mixing up charming and having them beat each other, similar to how necro/enchanters charm-kill stuff. Why would they resort to this much more complicated scheme if they could simply swarm kite?

What server were you on and what was your character name then?

There wasn't many bards on Sol Ro I hardly remember any at all in the early days.

Also pre-Kunark bards hit a huge wall once they hit 25 or so not only do they fall off hard because there isn't many mobs to kite but it's ruff to get a group.

Bards can only really start kiting huge groups of mobs and keep leveling fast once Kunark comes out.

Can you find any pictures of a bard only kiting 4 mobs because I can't and for that matter I can't find any pictures of a bard kiting anything.

[Dolalin]

Don't feed the troll. He has nothing useful to add.

[Jibartik]

I think it is up to Vyal to find a dated screenshot of an AOE hitting more than 4 creatures. At this point the evidence greatly outweighs the contrary evidence.

He has discredited newsgroups and patch notes, and supplied an edgelord blog as "proof!"

I usually support all EQ fans but vyal is off his rocker. I would love to know the truth, but vyal I do not stand behind your arguments at all. Maybe if you reduced your post count by 90% and spent that time researching and finding a NEW link to defend your arguments, I might start thinking you're contributing.

But what you're doing now is the opposite of contributing.

[Vyal]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it is up to Vyal to find a dated screenshot of an AOE hitting more than 4 creatures. At this point the evidence greatly outweighs the contrary evidence.

He has discredited newsgroups and patch notes, and supplied an edgelord blog as "proof!"

I usually support all EQ fans but vyal is off his rocker. I would love to know the truth, but vyal I do not stand behind your arguments at all. Maybe if you reduced your post count by 90% and spent that time researching and finding a NEW link to defend your arguments, I might start thinking you're contributing.

But what you're doing now is the opposite of contributing.

I'm half tempted to download EQ login to my old account show you the play time, the title "Burning Champion" which was given out less then a month after the game came out.

I played back then I know what i'm talking about, that Ron guy knows what he's talking about, all the spell data sites that say "The AoE spell hits ALL the mobs around the caster" knows what they are talking about.

Imagine for a moment it is a month after the game comes out and you post how a level 4 AoE spell works and 20 years later not one person has corrected you and all the major sites still say "This spell hits ALL the monsters around the caster".

Just stop trying to screw up the way classic was because you think some AoE caster is going to steal everything from you. That's all i'm asking alright.

If you played tell me the server and character name you had if you didn't play who are you to argue with someone that did?

[Glasken]

Originally Posted by Vyal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm half tempted to download EQ login to my old account show you the play time, the title "Burning Champion" which was given out less then a month after the game came out.

I played back then I know what i'm talking about, that Ron guy knows what he's talking about, all the spell data sites that say "The AoE spell hits ALL the mobs around the caster" knows what they are talking about.

Imagine for a moment it is a month after the game comes out and you post how a level 4 AoE spell works and 20 years later not one person has corrected you and all the major sites still say "This spell hits ALL the monsters around the caster".

Just stop trying to screw up the way classic was because you think some AoE caster is going to steal everything from you. That's all i'm asking alright.

If you played tell me the server and character name you had if you didn't play who are you to argue with someone that did?

While I can find plenty of entertainment and pleasure in a well formed anecdote, it isnt data.

Find and post -evidence-, and see everyone sway to your side. Keep posting fond memories demanding people accept them as fact, and watch potential allies flee from you like rats from a ship.

[Vyal]

Originally Posted by Glasken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I can find plenty of entertainment and pleasure in a well formed anecdote, it isnt data.

Find and post -evidence-, and see everyone sway to your side. Keep posting fond memories demanding people accept them as fact, and watch potential allies flee from you like rats from a ship.

I posted 3 pieces of evidence about AoE's.
Since it's the same few people who continue to say after I post it to post it. I'm fairly certain you guys are the type of people who think you're always right and no matter what you just can't accept the truth. In today's world it's a sickness, people can only accept the truths comfortable to them.

But I know AoE spells had no limits and it's such a stupid thing to even argue about. I know for certain the only time an AoE didn't hit many targets was because the game itself had many flaws when it came to casting them. You can chalk that up to bad client server code, connections, whatever, but when the spells worked correctly there was no limits.

Even if p99 devs refuses to make AoE classic because they think you lot of people are going to cry about bards or something stupid it's fine. When green drops I promise i'll probably be one of the first to 50 with manastone nothing is going to slow me down.

Not having AoE work correctly sucks for sure and it really is going to take much enjoyment out of the game for me. But there's some people who still play I know and have asked me to play on Green and before I even knew about all the changes to AoE I invited 20+ to come join. Not that there is even much to AoE or kite before Kunark anyways...

But you guys really need to stop this war you have on AoE casters.

You saw the video didn't you?
This one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUHDRz1Iv_U
You can see right here is an example of AoE group, there is more then 25 mobs there but on p99 you can't pull 25 mobs. Do you not understand how you wanting to keep changing how the game works screws up the way the game was?

[Sunderfury]

I didn't take the time to count each faction hit, but that didn't seem like 25 mobs to me. If it was more it isn't by leaps and bounds.

Regardless, take a breath and just accept it for now. View it this way, even if not mechanically classic, you have to admit people didn't know these strats from day 1 and use them en masse. So just view it as an "in the spirit of classic" change if that helps.

Hell, pretty sure there was huge server issues first few weeks where people were getting kicked consistently. I remember constant LDs where we would yell, "get to the path! Get to the path! " so we would know where our corpse was when we got back in.