Green99 pro strats and early game goals

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We don't know the server details yet, but assuming they stick to their "exact classic code" mantra, it will be a particularly annoying because of how many un-Classic changes there will be. Let's look at the code differences in early/mid 1999 that currently seem like they won't be reflected on Green p99:

01.) There was no Play Nice Policy, it was only exploits that GM's cared about, or maybe sometimes training when it was the same person doing it non-stop (and that wasn't something people were banned for, it was just a warning and maybe the person gets ported out of the zone if they don't stop for awhile).

02.) Player corpses could be looted by anyone who was consented. My immediate thought was that this is a bad classic feature, but actually it could add an interesting dynamic for a server like p99 during this era. It means corpse recovery is a bigger challenge if you don't absolutely trust someone. In a highly experienced and linked-in community like this, an individual's rep would go to shit instantly if they kept someone's items...unless they did it to a player who is part of an opposing faction. Between not having a Play Nice Policy and this feature, it's like having soft-coded PvP. More competition and social dynamic to players' actions.

...

The devs have already made clear (prior even to Green's announcement) that there are some classic thing P99 just won't have. Not necessarily because the staff doesn't want them, but because they're too much work for too little benefit.

Project M and dropping coins on the ground will be like this, and (I believe) being able to loot someone else's corpse when consented will also (but I'm only 99% certain because I only save GM quotes about rulings, not ones about Green ... anyone else is welcome to look through old staff postings for proof though [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]).

As for all the other things on that impressive list Zur compiled, we've got just two months left. File bugs on it if you care, but otherwise ... the staff will either explicitly tell us which classic things they won't do in the big "pre-Green announcement" ... or else they won't, and in two months we'll login and see for ourselves,

The point is, it's reasonable to expect that anything which is dramatically different from how Blue works now, and which only existed on Live for a short time, probably won't be on Green. And for the next two months, other than speculating wildly, all we can do is have some patience ...
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[Videri]

Damn, Zur! I pray to Mithaniel Marr for the courage to play on Project Zuranthium.

[AenorVZ]

Originally Posted by Videri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Damn, Zur! I pray to Mithaniel Marr for the courage to play on Project Zuranthium.

On Project Zuranthium Red, charm and fear work on players!

[heartbrand]

As a guide during the PnP area, you absolutely would get warned/suspended/banned for KS'ing / racism / training, etc. I don't know where you're getting "exploits" only from. Maybe like the first week of live or something they didn't police training but there absolutely was punishment for that stuff.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a guide during the PnP era

Why are you talking about the PnP era? Of course there was punishment after it got put in, but the Play Nice Policy didn't exist for quite some time (I don't remember the exact date it was put in, some help researching this would be nice). There was absolutely allowable "killstealing", see also how the Pantheon devs who worked on original EQ want that feature in their new game. Training was definitely a thing too, and people started getting very tactical doing it with Feign Death. GM's would step in when it was considered overly excessive, but before the PnP came into existence it was not something a person could be banned for (unless considered an exploit with pathing). It was just an emergent aspect of gameplay, like kiting things around with DoT's. Extremely foul language / harassment was of course always off limits, but that should be obvious.

[tsuchang]

Originally Posted by Thugnuts View Post
- Poop in bags. I've already been saving my plastic grocery store bags for several weeks and have a proper toilet seat mounted to a 5 gallon bucket. I'm also lucky in that my garbage pick up bin is right below my bedroom window. It's still a solid 12 feet away from my desk, but I'm thinking I can just rush to the window between spawns and throw my poop bags directly into my can for the garbage collection on Mondays.

It would be great if there was a two or three story drop to the container just for the sound effect.

[Jibartik]

I love classic EQ but I don't understand how the PnP is bad or not classic?

Like what do people want, if they don't like the play nice policy?

You after like a 2 month run where training is allowed? Serious question, I know it sounds sarcastic but I am genuinely curious when i hear someone say they don't think the PnP is classic, what they are after.

Seperate note:

15.) Dots did full damage on mobs while they ran for like 2? 3 months?

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love classic EQ but I don't understand how the PnP is bad or not classic?

The PnP is not classic because it factually was not in the game for a LONG time. I'm pretty sure it didn't get implemented until 2000, and definitely was not in the game for the first 6 months. And it's bad because it makes the game boring.

Even beyond that, the PnP on p99 right now isn't what it was in classic!! Back then, the PnP stated that all camps must be shared among anyone who shows up and wants to camp it, which is NOT how things work here.

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seperate note: Dots did full damage on mobs while they ran for like 2? 3 months?

It didn't get changed until 6 months into the game. DoT's actually had slightly lower durations up until that point; they were nerfed for kiting purposes but buffed for root rotting or fear kiting or tank-and-spank.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The devs have already made clear (prior even to Green's announcement) that there are some classic thing P99 just won't have. Not necessarily because the staff doesn't want them, but because they're too much work for too little benefit.

Allowing people to compete for content by outdamaging each other requires 0 effort. No game code change, no GM intervention needed. It actually cuts down on the amount of work GM's have to do, because any petitions about "killstealing" get auto-ignored, since that's how the game works.

If they are blatantly ignoring something that was essential to 1999 Everquest and requires nothing at all to implement (while declaring they are trying to make the game as classic as possible), then they are massive hypocrits and bad designers.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If they are blatantly ignoring something that was essential to 1999 Everquest and requires nothing at all to implement (while declaring they are trying to make the game as classic as possible), then they are massive hypocrits and bad designers.

Yeah, they could be "hypocrits and bad designers" .. or maybe they just don't agree with you that people being assholes to each other is an essential part of what classic EQ was all about.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, they could be "hypocrits and bad designers" .. or maybe they just don't agree with you that people being assholes to each other is an essential part of what classic EQ was all about.

It's not "being assholes" to each other. It's competition. It's the game world being alive. It's social dynamic. The people who don't want to compete for content are free to band together, blacklist all of the "Kill Stealers" from their guilds and groups, and avoid the areas where they know others are going to be fighting over content (or call in reinforcements to areas where you were "there first" and feel you have claim to). That's exactly what happened back in the day.

The MOST asshole policy of all is the one p99 currently has. People allowed to indefinitely solo-lock camps. Have no skill and no life? Then p99 is for you! This is not classic in any way at all. If there is going to be a Play Nice Policy, then it should be the one that was actually put into the game eventually - people sharing camps.

The current p99 policy also encourages RMT. A small group of players being able to indefinitely lock down camps means they get sole ownership over certain items on a server, and thus can create a business around selling those items to everyone else, who now have a 0% chance of obtaining that item without buying it.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lack of universal PNP doesn't mean there was no intervention. Previous to PNP enforcement was down to GM initiative.

All PNP did was codify enforcement to achieve a parity of standards across servers. It is disingenuous to stipulate no PNP = total anarchic Wild West Ffa.

It was explicitly the intent of the game designers to have competition, and there are articles written by players circa September 1999 talking about their tactics for combating "kill stealers". At no point is "petitioning a GM" ever mentioned as a solution. The game was most definitely a FFA during 1999.

GM's had power to intervene, but they were not there to stop competition. They were there to stop exploits, to pull players out of being bugged into a wall, and to stop extreme harassment (verbal abuse, or a high level player specifically following around a low level player and killing everything the low-level player engages).