Bard or Ranger?

[OfficeThug]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can appreciate what a bard does, but having great dps on a ranger and being more active if I want to in groups is more appealing to me. Also with the next patch coming, should make them even more viable group tanks than they are now with the right gear.

Bards don't scale nearly as well as Rangers do with gear either, and it sounds like you can commit some pretty good pieces of gear to twink out a new character.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can appreciate what a bard does, but having great dps on a ranger...

To be clear, you should not have the expectation of great dps from a ranger. On average rangers make for *decent* damage.

Before rangers come out of the woodwork chest thumping ... we all know the drill. With BIS endgame gear your dps will be respectable. With a BFG and a trueshot burn you might rarely top a chart or get close to it. Any class with gear like that will be respectable.

On average, ranger dps is simply average ... and that's ok. There's a lot of utility, fun and other to be had. It's a good class but it's never 'great' dps ... at least not until the end game.

[jolanar]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Given the current state of velious, with the upcoming patch that both classes are getting benefits from which would you recommend?

I will be moderately twinking with a fungi/seahorse belt and a few other goodies. I want to solo mostly but with the option to group as well.

Does a charming bard run oom quickly? Is fear kiting animals 50+ tolerable?

If you are twinking I would go with the ranger, as they will benefit far more from it.

To answer the last question, I personally did not find fear kiting animals 50+ tolerable AT ALL. But it's much better if you grab a rogue or a mage to duo with. 50+ you are limited to Velious mobs which have absurdly high AC and HP for relatively little return in xp.

[Legidias]

You can duo (or trio) KC pretty well with a bard (50+). I used to do it in RCY with an epic rogue and sometimes a monk.

Pull mob to far corner near water, snare, and fear it. By the time mob hits corridor leading to entrance (where the fear path usually takes them) they're dead. Bard snare is also the strongest in game so mobs basically walk like theyre encumbered but with sow on.

[Troxx]

The autist has joined the conversation!

————————— For Alleriah ——————————-

Originally Posted by Alleriah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ive Arrived. Hold the applause!

Trust me; we’ll hold.

Originally Posted by Alleriah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only time ive fear kited was in OT when i was letting my fungi tunic heal me up.
Fear animal 10 mana , snares like 10 mana too. Its getting exp while healing!

Neat! A melee with a fungi can solo? No wai!!?!

Originally Posted by Alleriah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the low 50s - 60 Soloed KC smoothly on the ranger.

So did my warrior. And paladin. And monk. And shaman! It’s funny how that works with a fungi.

The bard didn’t have or need a fungi and did it faster (without aoe dotting).

Originally Posted by Alleriah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In regards to rangers DPS.. Expect ... dps that is below rogues. Monks ... score higher ... I parse and out dps the "lazy/bad" rogues [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ...

Fixed that for you. Don’t oversell yourself.

Monks WILL score higher. The only exception is the NToV geared ranger vs the same tier monk that hasn’t yet scored the BiS monk ratio weapons off tunare etc. At most all levels of gameplay with the exception of a very narrow window in the upper (but not absolute BiS) tier of content, monks have flatly superior ratio weapons available to them. This starts with epic/kunark/planes and continues straight through to the end of the game content on p99. The only real exception is BFG trueshot burn and a ton of arrows.

Monk BiS (primary and offhand) ratio = 0.83

Ranger BiS caps out in the high 0.7s for both mainhand and offhand.

Next and final patch monks get triple attack at 60 and improved dmg tables at 55/60.

Originally Posted by Alleriah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In regards to bards.. Only method i would use to level would be swarming. Lots and lots of circles

Neat. That what the bad bards do. You go girl!

Originally Posted by Alleriah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Both classes are useful in their own ways. Bards sing songs and play music.
Rangers win raids.

Drink that koolaid!

Neither of these classes “wins raids” on p99. Raids on this server are won by pull teams, clerics, and tanks with honorable mention going to the actual dps classes (ie neither bard nor ranger).

————————————— end of Alleriah reply ———————————



Both classes have their place in this game and there is only marginal overlap in terms of what the average raid or group might ask of each respectively. Bards are generally actively sought out for cc/mana_regen/haste/support. Rangers are generally sought out for dps/other. Situationally either may be sought for pulling/tanking/other.

Neither class fits into the ideal min/max that some (not all) on this server aspire to get but both are worth having around.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Given the current state of velious, with the upcoming patch that both classes are getting benefits from which would you recommend?

Next patch both get tankier. Both get a dmg output boost.

It doesn’t matter what anyone recommends because bards/rangers are classes with fundamentally different roles/expectations.

What matters is what you want to do.

They’re both strong classes but in different ways.

[deezy]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Monks WILL score higher.

"Will" as in the future when they get triple attack? Cause currently they don't.

[jolanar]

Originally Posted by deezy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Will" as in the future when they get triple attack? Cause currently they don't.

How do rangers do more damage than monks if their weapons are worse? Just curious.

[deezy]

Originally Posted by jolanar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do rangers do more damage than monks if their weapons are worse? Just curious.

Probably the +atk bonus if I had to made an educated guess. Me and my ranger buddies have consistently scored higher on our damage parses than monks have. My rough estimate would be about 3/4 of the time rangers were higher damage than monks.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by jolanar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do rangers do more damage than monks if their weapons are worse? Just curious.

Oh it’s more than just ratios. They have lower offense skill cap, weapon skill caps, dual wield skill cap, double attack skill cap, and an inferior (kick vs flying kick) secondary attack skill that also has lower skill cap.

I’m also very interested in hearing the rationale.

-Inferior weapon ratios
-lower weapon skill caps and offense
-inferior double attack and dual wield
-inferior bonus attack
= profit?

If you only factor in Trueshot (2 minutes per 72 minutes), that’s a brief window with exceptional damage potential followed by 70 minutes of all the challenges listed above. Many of the truly impressive parses I’ve seen involved BFG though some were with other high end traditional bows.

Deezy, do you give your monks CoP. If you did, did they lose it in the process of dying or being debuffed while they were out bringing the mob to you? Were they having the opportunity to have 100% uptime fighting or did they spend part of the fight flopped from the pull? Were you sitting in a bard dps group and/or consistently prebuffed with avatar while the monk team is generally best utilized in a puller group arrangement? Under the right circumstances it’s easy to see how a NToV geared ranger could functionally beat a monk with the same ratios (don’t have their BiS monk specific weapons), but most of those circumstances involve simply benefiting from outside buffs/support and/or simply more available uptime opportunity easily lost because monks were doing that one critical duty that enables the whole raid.

Innate ranger attack exists mostly to partially offset the lower weapon/offense/dualwield/double attack skill caps.

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(Notice theres no mention of equal gear or buffs)

Bingo.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh it’s more than just ratios. They have lower offense skill cap, weapon skill caps, dual wield skill cap, double attack skill cap, and an inferior (kick vs flying kick) secondary attack skill that also has lower skill cap.

I’m also very interested in hearing the rationale.

-Inferior weapon ratios
-lower weapon skill caps and offense
-inferior double attack and dual wield
-inferior bonus attack
= profit?

If you only factor in Trueshot (2 minutes per 72 minutes), that’s a brief window with exceptional damage potential followed by 70 minutes of all the challenges listed above. Many of the truly impressive parses I’ve seen involved BFG though some were with other high end traditional bows.

Deezy, do you give your monks CoP. If you did, did they lose it in the process of dying or being debuffed while they were out bringing the mob to you? Were they having the opportunity to have 100% uptime fighting or did they spend part of the fight flopped from the pull? Were you sitting in a bard dps group and/or consistently prebuffed with avatar while the monk team is generally best utilized in a puller group arrangement? Under the right circumstances it’s easy to see how a NToV geared ranger could functionally beat a monk with the same ratios (don’t have their BiS monk specific weapons), but most of those circumstances involve simply benefiting from outside buffs/support and/or simply more available uptime opportunity easily lost because monks were doing that one critical duty that enables the whole raid.

Innate ranger attack exists mostly to partially offset the lower weapon/offense/dualwield/double attack skill caps.



Bingo.

Really none of this matters, most won't see tov gear . A scrub monk will outdps a scrub ranger. Ranger is quite good with tov gear however . With bfg and trueshot I parae like a bad rogue .with tov gear and melee I beat bad monks (most monks don't have tov weapons). But i wouldn't roll a ranger with ass gear.