p99 has the worst raid scene of any game i have ever played and im quitting over it

[seananetsberger]

Originally Posted by Dillusional [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can’t log in a character that is camped out past a zoneline and FTE a raid mob. That is considered tracker FTE (because trackers are allowed to be camped out in raid zones as long as they don’t FTE)...welcome to the P99 raid scene. I’m glad to see the rules being enforced again

We know this. But what we cannot do is concede a mob when we didnt know the tracker FTE hit.

[tylercanuck]

Originally Posted by seananetsberger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We know this. But what we cannot do is concede a mob when we didnt know the tracker FTE hit.

Get a more honest tracker who is willing to admit their mistake.

[Dillusional]

Originally Posted by seananetsberger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We know this. But what we cannot do is concede a mob when we didnt know the tracker FTE hit.

A little over a year ago, awakened would’ve eaten a 30+ day suspension for this. I’m not saying everyone in BG knew they were breaking the rules but having yellow text go out for a character that logged in in the middle of the zone should be an automatic concession and the punishment is light. The other guilds present should’ve gotten a shot at the mob. They were denied loot

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by seananetsberger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He wasnt a tracker,
he had logged out there a few days back doing druid things on the plateau.
quake hit, he remembered he had his druid in ej. logged in w/ sev on his face, FTE'd and died.

like stated before, no one said anything including him. He didnt know it meant anything. probly felt stupid for dying so fast.

And that’s it in a nut shell.

There was no intent to log in and pull with a tracker. The early FTE resulted in immediate and unexpected death and didn’t impair any other guild attempt. Yes it was a technical violation of the rules but there was no ill intent. A technical violation but one that did not violate the “spirit” of the rule and the spirit of fair play. Furthermore the guild at large was unaware. Did this scenario warrant punishment? Depends how you look at it but I will readily admit it deserved some sort of action. What bothers me the most is that this was handled initially with voluntary concession of 2 spawns and an apology for an error we made without knowing initially it was made. This was handled on the player/guild/alliance level and was agreed upon and accepted. One sub-member of the alliance later tried to directly extort our guild.

Taking everything into consideration:

-false FTE by someone camped out in the zone resulted in both unintentional aggro and immediate unintentional death
-this someone was not a dedicated tracker for this mob
-it happened within a moment of a quake, dude was trying to mobilize to a raid not pull
-mob happily ate his face then proceeded to stroll around the zone for nearly 90 seconds before a real FTE pull.
-no other guild was ready in force by the time real FTE occurred
-mob deaded, guild still unaware of foul.
-when I grievances were voiced and the situation was clarified we voluntarily offered apologies and voluntarily offered concession to our ally alliance.
-Aegis as a whole seemed to understand and be satisfied on this player made agreement
-ALS tries to do the whole extortion thing, doesn’t end well
-GM rules player agreement reached initially isn’t sufficient and deleted loot

If our lone Druid has been afk or otherwise offline, we’d have still gotten the kill. Nobody else had force present. If they had ... well they had close to a 90 second window to engage. They weren’t ready.

It’s a narrow reading of a very specific rule. That rule was broken, but unintentionally so and in a way that didn’t interfere with the efforts of any raid. The ruling was fair. My only complaint would be with how the initial agreement was tossed out the window because a small fraction of said alliance got grumpy.

I will say this though, I’m proud as fuck of our leadership in not caving to the extortion attempts of ALS. If we’d known of the foul we wouldn’t have engaged. Once we were aware we attempted to make it right consistent with established server behavior protocol which was accepted by the other alliance of guilds. When later threatened with a petition, they didn’t back down.

Pixels will come and go. I’m glad leadership demonstrated they have a spine.

[seananetsberger]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And that’s it in a nut shell.

There was no intent to log in and pull with a tracker. The early FTE resulted in immediate and unexpected death and didn’t impair any other guild attempt. Yes it was a technical violation of the rules but there was no ill intent. A technical violation but one that did not violate the “spirit” of the rule and the spirit of fair play. Furthermore the guild at large was unaware. Did this scenario warrant punishment? Depends how you look at it but I will readily admit it deserved some sort of action. What bothers me the most is that this was handled initially with voluntary concession of 2 spawns and an apology for an error we made without knowing initially it was made. This was handled on the player/guild/alliance level and was agreed upon and accepted. One sub-member of the alliance later tried to directly extort our guild.

Taking everything into consideration:

-false FTE by someone camped out in the zone resulted in both unintentional aggro and immediate unintentional death
-this someone was not a dedicated tracker for this mob
-it happened within a moment of a quake, dude was trying to mobilize to a raid not pull
-mob happily ate his face then proceeded to stroll around the zone for nearly 90 seconds before a real FTE pull.
-no other guild was ready in force by the time real FTE occurred
-mob deaded, guild still unaware of foul.
-when I grievances were voiced and the situation was clarified we voluntarily offered apologies and voluntarily offered concession to our ally alliance.
-Aegis as a whole seemed to understand and be satisfied on this player made agreement
-ALS tries to do the whole extortion thing, doesn’t end well
-GM rules player agreement reached initially isn’t sufficient and deleted loot

If our lone Druid has been afk or otherwise offline, we’d have still gotten the kill. Nobody else had force present. If they had ... well they had close to a 90 second window to engage. They weren’t ready.

It’s a narrow reading of a very specific rule. That rule was broken, but unintentionally so and in a way that didn’t interfere with the efforts of any raid. The ruling was fair. My only complaint would be with how the initial agreement was tossed out the window because a small fraction of said alliance got grumpy.

I will say this though, I’m proud as fuck of our leadership in not caving to the extortion attempts of ALS. If we’d known of the foul we wouldn’t have engaged. Once we were aware we attempted to make it right consistent with established server behavior protocol which was accepted by the other alliance of guilds. When later threatened with a petition, they didn’t back down.

Pixels will come and go. I’m glad leadership demonstrated they have a spine.

Thank you. This is all of it in a nutshell.

have spent hours and days on all of this. I think its time to let it go and move on for myself. GL to the rest of you RnF'ers!

If any questions are acted or statements made, just copy and paste this as a reply. TY troxx

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by seananetsberger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank you. This is all of it in a nutshell.

have spent hours and days on all of this. I think its time to let it go and move on for myself. GL to the rest of you RnF'ers!

If any questions are acted or statements made, just copy and paste this as a reply. TY troxx

[bthomsen0312]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And that’s it in a nut shell.

There was no intent to log in and pull with a tracker. The early FTE resulted in immediate and unexpected death and didn’t impair any other guild attempt. Yes it was a technical violation of the rules but there was no ill intent. A technical violation but one that did not violate the “spirit” of the rule and the spirit of fair play. Furthermore the guild at large was unaware. Did this scenario warrant punishment? Depends how you look at it but I will readily admit it deserved some sort of action. What bothers me the most is that this was handled initially with voluntary concession of 2 spawns and an apology for an error we made without knowing initially it was made. This was handled on the player/guild/alliance level and was agreed upon and accepted. One sub-member of the alliance later tried to directly extort our guild.

Taking everything into consideration:

-false FTE by someone camped out in the zone resulted in both unintentional aggro and immediate unintentional death
-this someone was not a dedicated tracker for this mob
-it happened within a moment of a quake, dude was trying to mobilize to a raid not pull
-mob happily ate his face then proceeded to stroll around the zone for nearly 90 seconds before a real FTE pull.
-no other guild was ready in force by the time real FTE occurred
-mob deaded, guild still unaware of foul.
-when I grievances were voiced and the situation was clarified we voluntarily offered apologies and voluntarily offered concession to our ally alliance.
-Aegis as a whole seemed to understand and be satisfied on this player made agreement
-ALS tries to do the whole extortion thing, doesn’t end well
-GM rules player agreement reached initially isn’t sufficient and deleted loot

If our lone Druid has been afk or otherwise offline, we’d have still gotten the kill. Nobody else had force present. If they had ... well they had close to a 90 second window to engage. They weren’t ready.

It’s a narrow reading of a very specific rule. That rule was broken, but unintentionally so and in a way that didn’t interfere with the efforts of any raid. The ruling was fair. My only complaint would be with how the initial agreement was tossed out the window because a small fraction of said alliance got grumpy.

I will say this though, I’m proud as fuck of our leadership in not caving to the extortion attempts of ALS. If we’d known of the foul we wouldn’t have engaged. Once we were aware we attempted to make it right consistent with established server behavior protocol which was accepted by the other alliance of guilds. When later threatened with a petition, they didn’t back down.

Pixels will come and go. I’m glad leadership demonstrated they have a spine.

You can't bend the rules "because he didn't know". This opens a huge can of worms that can never be unopened

[Kazik]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-false FTE by someone camped out in the zone resulted in both unintentional aggro and immediate unintentional death

Intent doesn't matter. How long the guy lived doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-this someone was not a dedicated tracker for this mob

Someone camped out in the zone, beyond the zone line, is the definition of a tracker. Just because you, him, your guild, don't call him a tracker doesn't change the fact that he was a tracker.

After you familiarize yourself with the rules please familiarize yourself with the terminology.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That rule was broken, but unintentionally so and in a way that didn’t interfere with the efforts of any raid.

FTE messages do interfere with other guilds efforts. When an FTE message goes out, batphones might be called off, people might be told not to bother porting over, raids forces might be diverted. Do you understand how a false FTE can be deceptive and interfere in this was?

[JayDee]

Can give it another try on green. With full LR and DE mask

[Fifield]

this thread is great,

I once had a new bard guildie track gore all day trying to get scales for himself, I could of pulled it in for him but i was like hey, you know what, lets let him pull in his own dragon and get his own epic, be a fun way to earn scales. Little did i remember he was the one tracking it.
Had to drop the mob, tracker FTE, ended up dropping scales.

Tracker FTE is what it is, if you get it, forfiet the mob.

Shitty way to learn, shoulda given AEGIS a scale by the sounds of it