Single mob camping rules?

[Crawdad]

Losing them to someones 23rd twinked monk and boxed necro is really pissing me off.

It doesn't matter if you've been here 10 years or 10 days, show respect to other players. Everything here is either a camp or FTE. I'm not sure what camp you might be at that's causing you confusion, but nothing is a Dps race. You being in raw hide doesn't give you priority over a 200k-twinked monk. For the most part, especially leveling up/doing the normal camps that people do, being polite goes a long way.

[Menden]

The game is fairly complicated due to there being many types of NPCs/mobs and camps in this game. If you're ever set on camping something and want the guidelines /petition is always an option. But don't lawyer quest us, use common sense. If you don't have that, don't play here. And again, these are BASIC guidelines to follow. If a camp dispute does happen you really, really don't want us involved because there is a chance you or both parties could be kicked out of the zone.

There's two basic zone categories.

Open outdoor zones and dungeon type zones.

Open outdoor zones could be anything from the Karanas, Wastes or Commons.

Dungeon type zones could be anything from MM, COM, hhk, Guks, or Sebilis.


These are very basic guidelines when it comes to camps in this game.

For open outdoor zones you can claim a single spawn point. This may include SF, Hadden or OOT AC. If you're camping these mobs you need to get FTE within a reasonable amount of time.

For dungeon type zones our general guideline is line of sight(LOS)/agro range. This works for pretty much everything. Couple exemptions may be Fungi King or Captain in Karnors because it's not exactly practical to camp on top or within LOS/agro range of their spawns.


Also keep in mind, above is how we as staff see it. There's also player defined camps out there we don't enforce but HIGHLY encourage players follow. Player defined camps may include Sisters in lfay or Gnoll Spires in SK.

TLDR: Don't be a douche.

Does that help?

[I Felt Nostalgic]

Originally Posted by Menden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't be a douche.

Come on man... You know that is asking way too much from certain players.

[Menden]

Originally Posted by I Felt Nostalgic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Come on man... You know that is asking way too much from certain players.

Sorry ><

[Liia]

Originally Posted by Menden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For open outdoor zones you can claim a single spawn point. This may include SF, Hadden or OOT AC. If you're camping these mobs you need to get FTE within a reasonable amount of time.

For dungeon type zones our general guideline is line of sight(LOS)/agro range. This works for pretty much everything. Couple exemptions may be Fungi King or Captain in Karnors because it's not exactly practical to camp on top or within LOS/agro range of their spawns.

I recently started to camp Alice 4 in PoM after not going there for a few years. A few years ago, 22 and Brenn/Grenn were the only 2 thrones dropper camp. . Due to some infamous like Svenn, Lunatick and others, those were considered 2 separated camps cause you didnt had line of sight on both camps. Now with the addition to Glonk/Grink is it now 4 camps?

I tried to avoid being a dick so far and claiming a camp while the the actual camper is away killing another mob. So, I would like to know if theres a ruling possible to be made there. Usually Brenn/Grenn is main room and if the farmer at least pull them all there it could avoid some problems, cause the dude sometimes leave that room for 15mins killing other PHs then gets back and consider it his camp and some drama may follow.

Anyway, I was wondering if you could make a ruling here Menden, it would be appreciated. Thanks

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Liia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I recently started to camp Alice 4 in PoM after not going there for a few years. A few years ago, 22 and Brenn/Grenn were the only 2 thrones dropper camp. . Due to some infamous like Svenn, Lunatick and others, those were considered 2 separated camps cause you didnt had line of sight on both camps. Now with the addition to Glonk/Grink is it now 4 camps?

I tried to avoid being a dick so far and claiming a camp while the the actual camper is away killing another mob. So, I would like to know if theres a ruling possible to be made there. Usually Brenn/Grenn is main room and if the farmer at least pull them all there it could avoid some problems, cause the dude sometimes leave that room for 15mins killing other PHs then gets back and consider it his camp and some drama may follow.

Anyway, I was wondering if you could make a ruling here Menden, it would be appreciated. Thanks

Based on those parroted rules passed around in forums, which Menden just summarized (they're not in the official rules document yet, but that post is a HUGE improvement), I'm going predict a ruling.

A multi-spawn camp is two NPCs close to each other (typically within line of site, and usually in the same room) in an indoor zone. PoM isn't an indoor zone, ergo it has no (multi-mob) camps. But the way Menden phrased things, it could be considered a "dungeon". Either way, the only potential "camp" that would qualify in that area would be the twins; all the other "camps" there are one mob per room.

Like any outdoor zone (or indoor/dungeon zone where a multi-spawn camp ruling doesn't apply) each player can camp a single spawn point: the gorilla, or the mouse, or Twenty-Two, or the twins (maybe just one, but since they share a room and PoM is arguably a dungeon I'd imagine they count as one camp).

You have to pick one and only that one is "yours" ... but you can still do the other mobs at A4 (or the rest of Alice), as long as no one else is claiming them as their one spawn point. If you pick the gorilla, and someone else picks Twenty-Two you can't kill Twenty Two ... but you can kill either the mouse or either one of the twins, as long as you beat the guy at Twenty-Two to be the "first to engage" them.

All of that is 100% separate from what the players consider to be "a camp", and the staff would of course encourage you to work things out with any other players there rather than bother them.

How'd I do?

[Menden]

Originally Posted by Liia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I recently started to camp Alice 4 in PoM after not going there for a few years. A few years ago, 22 and Brenn/Grenn were the only 2 thrones dropper camp. . Due to some infamous like Svenn, Lunatick and others, those were considered 2 separated camps cause you didnt had line of sight on both camps. Now with the addition to Glonk/Grink is it now 4 camps?

I tried to avoid being a dick so far and claiming a camp while the the actual camper is away killing another mob. So, I would like to know if theres a ruling possible to be made there. Usually Brenn/Grenn is main room and if the farmer at least pull them all there it could avoid some problems, cause the dude sometimes leave that room for 15mins killing other PHs then gets back and consider it his camp and some drama may follow.

Anyway, I was wondering if you could make a ruling here Menden, it would be appreciated. Thanks

I'll defer to Llandris to give a ruling on this one, I have a decent understanding of the mechanics of that zone but I believe he has spent more time in it than I have.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can we talk about just this part? Would it maybe, just maybe, make sense to publish those rules outside of the in-game petition system (which then gets parroted and turned into pseudo rules passed around the forum)? In other words, can we put what you just wrote, in a more refined form, in the official rules?

I know you GMs like your rules ambiguity so that you have full discretion to make rulings, and you should have that discretion: but can't we get a win win here? Can't you define explicit, public rules that the whole server can be clear on ... while at the same time asserting "but we can do whatever the crap we want in game, we're GMs bitches!!!" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And FWIW I'd freely volunteer my time, in any capacity that I could be useful, to help make that happen. My time's not worth a lot since I'm not staff, but I'm a former Lit major (good at English editing) and wiki addict (good at wiki editing, if we wanted to put the rules in an admin-locked wiki page so we don't have a bunch of different copies floating around the forums ... which would be awesome).

Compiling out solid rules and judgements is above my paygrade. But my first post is a pretty clear guideline. Camp disputes that involve us are pretty uncommon at this point in time. Every situation is different also.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Based on those parroted rules passed around in forums, which Menden just summarized (they're not in the official rules document yet, but that post is a HUGE improvement), I'm going predict a ruling.

A multi-spawn camp is two NPCs close to each other (typically within line of site, and usually in the same room) in an indoor zone. PoM isn't an indoor zone, ergo it has no (multi-mob) camps. But the way Menden phrased things, it could be considered a "dungeon". Either way, the only potential "camp" that would qualify in that area would be the twins; all the other "camps" there are one mob per room.

Like any outdoor zone (or indoor/dungeon zone where a multi-spawn camp ruling doesn't apply) each player can camp a single spawn point: the gorilla, or the mouse, or Twenty-Two, or the twins (maybe just one, but since they share a room and PoM is arguably a dungeon I'd imagine they count as one camp).

You have to pick one and only that one is "yours" ... but you can still do the other mobs at A4 (or the rest of Alice), as long as no one else is claiming them as their one spawn point. If you pick the gorilla, and someone else picks Twenty-Two you can't kill Twenty Two ... but you can kill either the mouse or either one of the twins, as long as you beat the guy at Twenty-Two to be the "first to engage" them.

All of that is 100% separate from what the players consider to be "a camp", and the staff would of course encourage you to work things out with any other players there rather than bother them.

How'd I do?

Pretty good, here's how we expect players to behave when it comes to camps.

If a player/group is holding multiple camps in a zone, that's fine as long as no one else wants them. As soon as another player/group wants one the camps the holder gets the option which single camp they prefer. The new player/group gets to pick their camp and the rest become FTE unless both players/groups work out a deal to split them up. But players must communicate in some fashion so there is no conflict. So, what Loramin said was pretty darn accurate.


A more specific situation that comes up often is Bards and Nobles in hhk, many, many players consider this one camp. But based on the guidelines above, this is a dungeon type zone. So LOS/Agro guidelines come into play even though they are fairly close to eachother. So if a player is holding both and another player shows up, the original player needs to pick one.


Sirken always told me, camp in the room that has the target you want.

[DromalPhrenia]

Originally Posted by Menden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A more specific situation that comes up often is Bards and Nobles in hhk, many, many players consider this one camp. But based on the guidelines above, this is a dungeon type zone. So LOS/Agro guidelines come into play even though they are fairly close to eachother. So if a player is holding both and another player shows up, the original player needs to pick one.

You probably know this, but HHK is an outdoor zone. I always thought counting it as a camp was a player-agreed thing, because no one on the server wants a single mob exp camp.

[Menden]

Originally Posted by DromalPhrenia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You probably know this, but HHK is an outdoor zone. I always thought counting it as a camp was a player-agreed thing, because no one on the server wants a single mob exp camp.

Yeah, that's why we say "open outdoor zone", since many dungeon type zones are outdoor like COM and Unrest.

Goblins are kinda weird. It depends which server you played on live there were different rules. Some said it was a single camp, others said it was 3-4 camps. We go by los/agro, so it could be 4 camps.. but who wants that? Guards are the same thing, agro/los. Players try to claim entire floors, doesn't work that way.

[wtsgoodtime]

Originally Posted by Menden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll defer to Llandris to give a ruling on this one, I have a decent understanding of the mechanics of that zone but I believe he has spent more time in it than I have.



Compiling out solid rules and judgements is above my paygrade. But my first post is a pretty clear guideline. Camp disputes that involve us are pretty uncommon at this point in time. Every situation is different also.




Pretty good, here's how we expect players to behave when it comes to camps.

If a player/group is holding multiple camps in a zone, that's fine as long as no one else wants them. As soon as another player/group wants one the camps the holder gets the option which single camp they prefer. The new player/group gets to pick their camp and the rest become FTE unless both players/groups work out a deal to split them up. But players must communicate in some fashion so there is no conflict. So, what Loramin said was pretty darn accurate.


A more specific situation that comes up often is Bards and Nobles in hhk, many, many players consider this one camp. But based on the guidelines above, this is a dungeon type zone. So LOS/Agro guidelines come into play even though they are fairly close to eachother. So if a player is holding both and another player shows up, the original player needs to pick one.


Sirken always told me, camp in the room that has the target you want.

Further questions on this. I logged into PoM yesterday (maybe 2 days ago?) and found A4 empty and down. After sitting for a few minutes, 1 halfing spawned and I went and got a pet and killed it. While waiting for the 2nd halfling to spawn, approximately 10 minutes later, a local friendly shaman (who I would normally find respectable) rolled up with /afk tag on. I didn't think anything of it as I am sitting there holding a charmed pet waiting for the 2nd halfling to spawn. A few minutes later, it spawns and the shaman instantly pulls and acts like nothing is wrong.

Now clearly I had the camp... it had been around 20 minutes past the first spawn and the shaman wanted the camp back. I won't name the shaman, but he can feel free to pipe up if he wants. He claimed he didn't know he was in a race. Well, ok, but two things: 1) I am sitting there with a charmed pet and I am there before you (you are 20 minutes late of first spawn). You should at least say something if you think there is a contest. and 2) You can't come back 20 minutes after the camp respawns and retake it with "I didn't know it was a race".

If I am wrong about this, please inform me of the correct rules.

Ultimately, since I don't want to be a dick, I just let him take the camp, broke my charm, calmed my pet, and logged off.

edit: Now my thoughts are these kinds of infractions are not worthy of petitioning someone. I also consider my server reputation when I let people push me off a camp. I'd rather the rules be clearer so I don't have to take a server rep hit nor cause someone to be suspended or banned because of some misunderstanding.