Anyone else started EQ in P99?

[Sonark]

Originally Posted by d3r14k [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think where a lot of the P99 elitism comes from is that Live seems like it has driven itself so far from the source.

Ok

Yes, the content is still there, but it's such a deviation from what it used to be. Compound that with the mish-mash of features that came out over however many expansions and it's just a jumble of unplayable nonsense.

"Unplayable nonsense"

I'm sorry, what.

"Unplayable"

...a game that people still play, continue to play, and continue to learn more about to get better at playing...

Is unplayable.

In Live's rush to stay relevant, it tried to take facets from modern MMOs and cram them into EverQuest.

It didn't try, it succeeded at implementing those things.

"cram" has connotations of its own, but the really "bad" stuff that people seem to really dislike around here don't exist on Live, or are entirely optional.

If I wanted to play a modern MMO, I'd play one (but none are very good, which is why I'm here until *cough* Pantheon 2026).

A lot of the vague things people seem to throw out about "modern" MMOs doesn't apply to Live, that I've seen, and a lot of those things are also completely optional.

If you want to run, take a boat, or have a pocket Druid or Wizard to get you around, you can.

I'd also argue that there isn't much adversity left in Live, but I'll concede that I could be wrong there because I haven't played it in ages.

I'm sorry, but what adversity exists on p99 except for starting out with no gear? "Classic" has been catalogued and researched TO DEATH to the point that there's a wiki and also this message board for trivializing anything you're not sure about.

There are things to get you through a lot of levels that don't mean much of anything anymore because the game is focused towards the top end on Live, but good luck not being awful at your class, and even better luck getting into the raid scene.

I just look at it and see it as an abomination

This is the only thing you've said that I can't actually successfully argue against, because it's objective opinion.

You don't like it, and it's fine to say you don't like it, but don't make up justifications out of thin air.

Not liking something is fine. Making things up to rationalize it when it's irrational is not.

It's like you meant to provide an answer for the elitism, and then just...described your own elitism.

[Evia]

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the only thing you've said that I can't actually successfully argue against, because it's objective opinion.

You think that any of what you posted was a successful argument on your behalf? You're ego is making you delusional. The hilarious irony of the whole thing is 95% of your 'successful' responses were literally your objective opinion. Do you work for daybreak? Cause you're definitely drinking their koolaid.

[d3r14k]

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's like you meant to provide an answer for the elitism, and then just...described your own elitism.

Since you wanted to break down the rest of my post, I'd read this bit again:

Originally Posted by d3r14k [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just my two cents.

You seem to be taking this really personally. I wasn't necessarily trying to start an argument, but you look to be doing an Alamo last stand type thing while standing on Live's hill. And frankly, any elitism you accuse me of for stating my opinion seems disingenuous when you respond in kind. I'm glad you enjoy Live and that people still play it. I don't want it to die or anything. But IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, SIR, it's not even remotely the same game other than the EverQuest name.

[urbanbo]

I started in June of ’99 on Tholuxe Paells. My coworkers at the time were nonstop talking about it – every – single – day. The thing that clinched it was when they started talking about killing orcs in Crushbone across a bridge and then this guy named Dvinn came out of his castle and killed everyone. I remember starting in Felwithe just in front of the bridge on the right side. I must have stood there for 5 minutes wondering WTF is going on. I also remember how hated wizards were because they could KS everything – even from your group. This was when damage was still calculated individually even if you were in a group.

[Gohie]

Bought my 1st computer in 99 So I can stay up late playing. Picked the Xegony server at random. Did meet my wife 1 or 2 year After playing. Before quitting we play together all the time. Well like most was the people new friends we met along the way

[Edwadragon]

Frankly, Sonark, you sound like a Live fanboy. Which is totally fine. I'm a fanboy for plenty of things, but it doesnt mean I'm a buzz kill for those that aren't.

You mention how things are optional which clearly shows you dont get what I or others are saying about adversity. I'm new here but I have to imagine a large part of the reason there is a draw to p99 is you HAVE to do it the hard way, or long way, or the more inconvenient way or janky as fuck way. And also probably because it's not been overcomlicated with system after system. And so that when you reach what ever milestone you want to get to and you see someone at or with that milestone, you have the mutual respect that you both lived through "the grind" and it was the same grind. Not that I optionally decided to make up some hardcore mode only for myself with no reason other than to hamstring myself when compared to everyone else.

You LITERALLY contradicted yourself to that end! You wanna know what's even more optional than taking a boat or druid ring? Use of the wiki you just said trivialized p99. Which I did do by the way till lvl 12 when i realized I should really do some reading and when I realized I screwed up and put 25 int 5 cha on my enchanter instead of vice versa.

If youre going to just walk into a post and on the p99 forums and start whining about all of the p99 elitism and telling everyone their wrong... first maybe look at the top of the page and realize that if there was ever a place for "p99 elitism" it's probably exactly here. And also realize that if you you're going to start throwing around terms like "good luck not being awful at your class, and even better luck getting into the raid scene" maybe you should check your "elitism". What ever that means.

Sincerely,

Everyone who's just here to have a good time with some people they met online.

[Sonark]

Originally Posted by Edwadragon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Frankly, Sonark, you sound like a Live fanboy.

No.

You're all p99 fanboys, and have complete fabrications and misconceptions about what Live EQ is, or how to play it, and no one here likes to have that bubble burst.

[Edwadragon]

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No.

Yes.

[Swish2]

You know they're biting when they separate out 7-8 quotes of a previous post.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, but neither does p99?

Neither of them are anything like Dark Souls, or anything like as hard as Dark Souls.

I stated that Classic EQ wasn't on par with Dark Souls and only alluded to it being in the same ballpark; Live has been tailgating in the parking lot. Bad metaphor?

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What a ridiculous, belittling, elitist thing to say.

Followed by the disclaimer that "I'm not comparing the two games." Personally, I like pompous and silver spoons better than elitist, but at least you incorporated some alliteration.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are horrifically bad at making points and making a sound argument.

I wasn't going for a sound argument. I was going for laughably absurd, taking your literal interpretation to the extreme to add some perspective.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm being "argumentative" only in the sense that there are things being said that are demonstrably wrong, and I have the information to counter those comments with facts.

Reacting emotionally versus responding thoughtfully / arguing versus debating.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys are elitist as fucking shit.

See, this would be an example of reacting emotionally.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's great you named three things that don't actually exist on p99.

Night blindness exists and the hybrid xp penalty existed for the longest time and (likely) will reemerge on the Green server.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

then don't use a boy? This isn't a point, either.

Bows not being viable is a point, and a valid one at that. You, the player, are all but restricted to one form of damage output--melee--and the alternative places you at a marked disadvantage. Really, I should have just said that the entire Ranger class was the embodiment of adversity. This leads into a finer talking point, which is that classes aren't balanced here.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Limited? There isn't an infinite number of spell slots on Live, either.

Did I say Live had an infinite number? No. Live has more slots and more spells to choose from and players can expect even more in the future, just as players expected back in classic waiting for the first and second expansion.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would definitely surprise you to learn this, but actually being good at your class on Live involves key binding and manual use of your abilities.

It wouldn't...I knew that from speaking with players who went to Fippy and Phinny, and others who still play on Live. Again, players can make the effort to be exceptional but they don't have to because less demanding alternatives exist.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This...isn't adversity?

Separate banks create adversity to the extent that players often resort to ground transfers, waiting for guild members to help, or trusting complete strangers not to make off with their pixels. Those risks lead to more memorable experiences and these forums have numerous threads describing those experiences in great detail in case anyone somehow forgets them.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm offended by awful arguments and justifications.

I'm going to keep repeating this, because all the elitists are popping out of the woodwork and flying off the handle, but fundamentally having an "opinion" about something isn't something I or anyone else can take away from them.

You love the other version. Hey, good for you. Whatever floats your boat. But that can skew your perception of it. Parents are often the same way about their kids, who in their minds can do no wrong (hence the dad/daughter Barbie game metaphor).

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, so, wait. Basically, you should know exactly what it's like to have someone belittle and dismiss the style and type of game you like to play, because people do that to you about p99.

But then...you turn around and do exactly that about Live, and you don't see the lesson here?

Except I wasn't belittling or being dismissive of Live; I made comparisons which you assumed were disparaging. Morrowind is harder to get a handle on than Skyrim. Fact. Morrowind offers more creative freedom for players. Fact. Morrowind came before Skyrim. Another fact. In those ways Classic EQ is more like Morrowind and Live is more like Skyrim. Opinion?

Also, the lesson here is to remain largely unaffected by what others say and to instead consider their point of view as one would when roleplaying a character. It's even easier to do online with the relative anonymity and the delay between each post.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are genuinely awful at metaphor.

You're one to judge. I fail to see the connection between the two. The metaphor only works when comparing EQ and WoW to DC and Marvel.

The three examples I used implied that while Live is still more popular, it is also more accommodating and, as a result, less rage-inducing than Classic. Yes, the playerbase on Project1999 has discovered ways of making their own accommodations, but the staff has also taken a fair number of those accommodations away, with less-than-classic fixes which have induced similar levels of rage on these forums.