Enchanter "DPS"

[mumpz]

@OP

Have you tried charming osagren in hhk goblin groups? He may change your mind.

But yeah, lower level charming is just OK. For soloing I think its still more efficient, but I get your point groups. Solo charming killing is awesome when you can get xp for two mobs.

[Rimitto]

Originally Posted by mumpz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@OP

Have you tried charming osagren in hhk goblin groups? He may change your mind.

But yeah, lower level charming is just OK. For soloing I think its still more efficient, but I get your point groups. Solo charming killing is awesome when you can get xp for two mobs.

have YOU been to hhk goblins lately? last 7 times I've been there the entire area has been perma-camped by various guilds and alts of people that only know that zone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I found a much faster source of solo/party exp in najena. Especially since it plays to my benefits as an enchanter who is capable of using mezz, mesmerization, root, and various other forms of control abilities that only my class gets. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Almost like that place was designed to benefit enchanters or something. Go Figure. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

don't get me wrong, if this was my 5th alt twinkled enchanter and I was part of some weird homogenous guild like azure dream or aftermath or that kittens guild, I probably would be all over those goblins... with the same 9 other people that are camping there are this very second (I haven't even logged in today but I still know they're sitting right there.)

Originally Posted by Wallicker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm(60 mana) break -> stun(20mana) -> mez(20mana) -> tash(10 mana) -> recharm(60mana) break.

fixed it for ya ;-)
btw, after getting a new robe, and mask recently, I managed to get about 100 extra mana points... so I'm up to 800 mana now. this failure of a charm strategy only drains me to 1/8th my mana instead of 1/6th [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[commongood]

I started charming in the mid-20s with Osargen while grouped in Goblins. Just park him a bit away from the group and charm breaks shouldn't wreck you too hard. If you get a break at the same time the ill-disciplined puller brought in all of raider room and your healer is lom then yes, you will likely die. If charm breaks when a single mob is on your tank or even two mobs then you will likely survive if you cast your color-stun and then mez Osargen. Can either re-charm then and there or wait a bit and re-mez while getting things under control with the mobs in camp.

I started charm-soloing at around level 31-33 at the Yeti camp in DL. It was pretty hard core until around lvl 34-35 and from there it was smooth sailing and amazing exp until I moved to goblins in Loio at around lvl 42-43. Stayed there until lvl 49. This was the "coming of age" camp for my charm-soloing "skills". Have never looked back. Whenever I have gone against my better judgment and grouped the exp have been terrible in comparison. And that's including the odd CR. Oh and yeah if you are careful and remain somewhat concentrated you will die very rarely while soloing for exp. I have small kids and so have just adopted the doctrin of always having gate memmed while exp'ing and being "better safe than sorry" in case I suddenly have to afk.

[Tuurin]

The worst thing about charming is that it spoils you for any other form of leveling. On my second enchanter, I leveled 100% charming- never had a single group and he's now L55. Can earn faster exp on that char at 55 than I can on my rogue at 48 in a full group chain-pulling.

[1asdfasdf1]

Can someone explain why "charm sucks until mid levels"? The mechanic is still random duration with break checks done vs charisma every tick right?

[Torik]

Originally Posted by 1asdfasdf1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can someone explain why "charm sucks until mid levels"? The mechanic is still random duration with break checks done vs charisma every tick right?

Break checks mostly matter on level, which is why you should NEVER charm a mob more than 85% of your level (for exp purposes). I think MR is secondary to level, and charisma is last.

Level ~40+ is when mob DPS really starts getting good, which is why charm killing becomes amazing around then.

As for the person complaining that they can't afford any cheap CHA gear, look for a Crude Stein (100pp), +7 CHA bracers (50pp each), Opalline Earrings (50pp each), Gypsy Medallion (100pp). For 400pp that gets you +48 CHA.

For another 600pp you can get the Rod of Insidious Glamour (+12 CHA and a GCD clicky).

For another ~1k you can get a Siryn Hair Hood (+13 CHA).

So for 2k you will have +73 CHA.

[Rimitto]

Originally Posted by Torik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for the person complaining that they can't afford any cheap CHA gear, look for a Crude Stein (100pp), +7 CHA bracers (50pp each), Opalline Earrings (50pp each), Gypsy Medallion (100pp). For 400pp that gets you +48 CHA.

For another 600pp you can get the Rod of Insidious Glamour (+12 CHA and a GCD clicky).

For another ~1k you can get a Siryn Hair Hood (+13 CHA).

So for 2k you will have +73 CHA.

yeah totally cheap and easy for a twinkled character.
not like I'm using that money for tradeskills, spells, spell ingredients, ports, or any form of actual game related quests or expenditures.

Offhand, what, pray tell, is your idea of the normal amount of plat a level 12 enchanter should have, is?
I'll give you a hint... it's not 4k... I'll give you another hint... it's not 400pp either :-)

At level 24 (specifically) I've only really just started getting (What I consider) good money. Managed to save up a crap ton from repeat farming bandit sashes to get up to 24 because 23 is a horrible level for enchanters. That combined with all the slow loot I've been getting and storing, I managed to hit my first thousand recently (level 25) and bought a new robe with that money... still have a bit left but haven't touched any of my tradeskills which require attention for a couple levels. Brownie parts alone is going to set me back a good 400-600 plat. jewelrycrafting jump from silver to plat is just... ballbustingly hard on the money.... and trying to get research past 20 is also taking it's toll. That's not including all the new spells I bought recently which cost a pretty penny.. and on top of all that, you're recommending that I spend money I don't have in order to use a setup that has been proven to kill me multiple times with an armor set that I cannot afford simply to "git gud".
Hello Kettle, it's pot here, You're black!!!

(just a side note, almost all of my skills/tradeskills are 130-150 range, aside from jewelcrafting and research)
just an additional note... even with all my current gear I've got a good 148 cha (with buffs up), so I personally don't think my cha is anything to sneeze at, and yet shit still breaks within 1 minute time... spending 1/8th my MP on a minion that is going to do half as much as an animation is quite literally, stupid. Not to mention that I need mana for my nukes as well... getting half exp due to minion kills just doesn't sit kosher with me. You're seeing the world through rose-tinted glasses. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


Edit: I'm actually starting to wonder if half of these people even play this game or if they're all just elaborate trolls that play on live/mangler. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Torik]

Originally Posted by Rimitto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah totally cheap and easy for a twinkled character.
not like I'm using that money for tradeskills, spells, spell ingredients, ports, or any form of actual game related quests or expenditures.

Offhand, what, pray tell, is your idea of the normal amount of plat a level 12 enchanter should have, is?
I'll give you a hint... it's not 4k... I'll give you another hint... it's not 400pp either :-)

At level 24 (specifically) I've only really just started getting (What I consider) good money. Managed to save up a crap ton from repeat farming bandit sashes to get up to 24 because 23 is a horrible level for enchanters. That combined with all the slow loot I've been getting and storing, I managed to hit my first thousand recently (level 25) and bought a new robe with that money... still have a bit left but haven't touched any of my tradeskills which require attention for a couple levels. Brownie parts alone is going to set me back a good 400-600 plat. jewelrycrafting jump from silver to plat is just... ballbustingly hard on the money.... and trying to get research past 20 is also taking it's toll. That's not including all the new spells I bought recently which cost a pretty penny.. and on top of all that, you're recommending that I spend money I don't have in order to use a setup that has been proven to kill me multiple times with an armor set that I cannot afford simply to "git gud".
Hello Kettle, it's pot here, You're black!!!

(just a side note, almost all of my skills/tradeskills are 130-150 range, aside from jewelcrafting and research)
just an additional note... even with all my current gear I've got a good 148 cha (with buffs up), so I personally don't think my cha is anything to sneeze at, and yet shit still breaks within 1 minute time... spending 1/8th my MP on a minion that is going to do half as much as an animation is quite literally, stupid. Not to mention that I need mana for my nukes as well... getting half exp due to minion kills just doesn't sit kosher with me. You're seeing the world through rose-tinted glasses. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


Edit: I'm actually starting to wonder if half of these people even play this game or if they're all just elaborate trolls that play on live/mangler. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My advice: Sell your ~1k robe. Buy the Rod + 400pp in CHA items I recommended. Stop focusing on tradeskills (except research) until you are 50+ and can make 500pp an hour. IMO, if you're not charming, you should play another class that better suits your playstyle, because once you are 40+ charming is pretty much your only option (unless you just wanna be a buff bot). 148 CHA is a little low.. A charming enchanter should have at least 200 CHA (buffed). I hope this helps!

Edit: You may have mentioned this already, but what level are the mobs you are charming as a level 25 enc? I would not try to charm anything higher than level 21. Also, are you tashing them before you charm them?

Edit 2: There are also 7 CHA / 5 DEX rings you can get for 150pp each, once you get the Rod and 400pp in gear I mentioned.

[Torik]

Originally Posted by Torik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

148 CHA is a little low.. A charming enchanter should have at least 200 CHA (buffed). I hope this helps!

As Crawdad mentioned, if you really care about CC you're going to get you CHA up anyway so you can lull/calm mobs to decrease your chance of getting a crit resist. Even on my untwinked, level 57 cleric, I have a set of cheap CHA gear for lulling/calming when we have no enchanter around.

I thought I'd share an personal (and embarrassing) experience I had when at the Fe'Dhar camp in SS as a level 60 enchanter with 204 CHA (unbuffed) and 254 CHA (buffed).

I buffed up (254 CHA), tashed, and charmed a green-conning cube one night and started tearing through Fe'Dhars. I would get a charm break every 5 kills on average. One time I was able to kill 11 Fe'Dhars without a charm break, and another time I had 3 breaks on one mob, but overall I would make it through ~5 mobs before I got a break.

The next morning, I log in to find my same pet is still there with torch in hand. I tashed and charmed him, and started killing again. First mob: break. Second mob: break. Third, forth, fifth mobs: breaks on each one. At this point I was OOM and had to reset everything. I then noticed that I didn't have my CHA buff up!! I was fighting at 204 CHA and was getting a ton of charm breaks. That 50 CHA made a bigger difference than I could have ever imagined.

I can tell you that if going from 204 to 254 CHA makes a big difference, so will going from 148 to 200 CHA.

Now, I know what you're going to say: "Do you know what a level 12 (aren't you level 25 though?) enchanter can afford? I'll give you a hint... etc."

In response to that, I'll add that when I was leveling from 20-60, I had between 200 and 230 CHA (buffed) using all the cheap CHA gear I recommended; gear that you could afford if you spent your money and time more wisely. Also, the mobs at the Fe'Dhar camp have high MR compared to most mobs you'll encounter while leveling, so with 200 CHA (buffed) you should be able to go through one fight without getting a charm break most of the time.

I know nothing I say will change your mind. You are too stubborn to listen to the wisdom and experience from several people who have enchanters with thousands of hours logged. But maybe some other new enchanter will find this thread and learn from the rest of us.

[commongood]

Originally Posted by 1asdfasdf1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can someone explain why "charm sucks until mid levels"? The mechanic is still random duration with break checks done vs charisma every tick right?

The way I see it, it is a combination of factors but chief among them is the size of your mana pool relative to the spells you are casting and your lack of mana regen through clarity and clarity II on lower levels.

Charms are relatively mana intense spells. So when you invariably get bad luck with breaks you are having to spend a lot of your limited mana ressources recharming. Before level 29 you won't have clarity and that means cumbresome regaining of mana. So you will have a harder time establishing a smooth flow of exp while charm-soloing for that reason.

Then there's something many might not factor in which is that the spells you use the most when charm soloing are your mez, tash, root, charm, nuke and stun (color line). Of those you will be using your level 4 mez until you ding 60. Level 4 mez costs 20 mana. The higher level you get, the lower percent of your total mana pool 20 mana becomes. The same can be said for your root. While I eventually switched to Paralyzing Earth and then Fetter I used my level 8 root until level 49. Again, same logic, the 30 mana becomes relatively less by each level you gain as your mana pool increases.

Lastly I would just like to say that these issues with mana pool size can be exacerbated if you aren't making effecient choices:

- Don't automatically just use your highest level charm. A higher level charm does not have a better chance at not getting resisted and does not have a better chance at lasting longer. It is solely a question of whether the mob you are trying to charm will be immune to your spell or not. Look it up. For instance your level 24 charm - Beguile - works up to level 37 mobs. You get a new charm - Cajoling Whispers - at level 39. Once you ding 39 and scribe CW you should really not be using it yet. Another way to put it is to say you shouldn't be charming something that is only 1 or 2 levels below you. At level 39 you should probably be charming level 31-35 mobs. And so Beguile is fine to use for at least a few more levels. Probably quite a few.

- Don't automatically use your highest level nuke. If you break charm and one mob is at 9% and the other at 1% you might want your highest level nuke to one-shot the 9% mob but you should be memming Chaos Flux or whatever to finish the 1% mob