Tunare agreement makes like a tree and leafs

[feniin]

He was rooted, just differently than you expected.

[DromalPhrenia]

it was more fun when i thought we'd need to get the whole server together to dps him down [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[FatherSioux]

Francois always comes off as the reasonable actor in these discussions. Maybe he’s baboozling us all.

[tylercanuck]

Originally Posted by FatherSioux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Francois always comes off as the reasonable actor in these discussions. Maybe he’s baboozling us all.

Not really. He just admitted his intention to snipe Tunare.

I assume that makes AM's successful Doze snipe all the more satisfying.

[Francois]

Originally Posted by tylercanuck [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not really. He just admitted his intention to snipe Tunare.

I assume that makes AM's successful Doze snipe all the more satisfying.

Doze happened before PoGrowth. At that point I was foolishly operating under the assumption that AM wouldn't do that because of

As usual, we encourage guilds to work together on raid target selections. Leapfrogging, while technically not against the rules, is still an asshole move.

But you're right, i'm not always rational.

[Castigate]

Originally Posted by FatherSioux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Francois always comes off as the reasonable actor in these discussions. Maybe he’s baboozling us all.

While I agree that in general I've always liked Franswa's posts and seen him as a reasonable person on the forums, and he's probably right on some of his points and the average AM member didn't really know about it, he just admitted to his willingness to steal 9 hours of work from any guild, and on top of that use it as a negotiation tactic, to effectively hold a gun to his opponents head and force his way.

You may have missed that part but that is exactly what happened yesterday, and he had 100+ people from Core/BG/AG willing to go along with it. Had the roles been reversed I know that I would not only have not taken part, but also started planning my guildremove.

[Karthil]

Originally Posted by Castigate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I agree that in general I've always liked Franswa's posts and seen him as a reasonable person on the forums, and he's probably right on some of his points and the average AM member didn't really know about it, he just admitted to his willingness to steal 9 hours of work from any guild, and on top of that use it as a negotiation tactic, to effectively hold a gun to his opponents head and force his way.

I don't personally feel good about either side of this argument, but if we're going to get anywhere we have to all be honest with ourselves about our roles in the matter.

AM saying that they no longer agree to the rules they drafted and signed onto and then just going into PoG to clear Tunare without a new one in place is not exactly something that puts them on the moral high ground here. The other guilds coming into PoG to contest Tunare was to show AM what an agreement-free PoG would look like. Why should they just let AM have a contested mob when AM *chose* to withdraw from the agreement?

Would it have been lame to snipe a Tunare? Yeah, which is why we have the agreement that AM backed out of. That they chose to then go clear PoG *before* a new agreement was in place is what started the whole showdown in the first place. To then say that the other guilds were holding a gun to AM's head in the negotiating process is disingenuous to say the least.

Many guilds put time and effort into clearing PoF in order to kill CT, who then gets sniped by another guild because he is a contested mob. With AM dissolving the agreement meant to allow guilds that put the time into clearing PoG a priority chance at Tunare, they essentially turned Tunare into exactly that: a contested mob. Then they said don't bother us while we're killing this contested mob without an agreement in place; we'll figure out a new agreement later.

AM has a long history of saying "let's play on for now and figure it out later," which I think a lot of other guilds are frustrated with.

Nobody acted perfectly here, but I don't think you're discussing it in good faith if you pain Franswa as the villain of the piece; you can't "steal" something if the agreement put in place to secure ownership rights is torpedoed. That mob becomes contested just like any other.

[Klem]

Originally Posted by Karthil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Many guilds put time and effort into clearing PoF in order to kill CT, who then gets sniped by another guild because he is a contested mob.

Dont compare POG to Fear lol. you can engage ct and handle adds at the same time in most cases be done in under an hour. not the case with a pog, who are you trying to fool here?

[Karthil]

Originally Posted by Klem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dont compare POG to Fear lol. you can engage ct and handle adds at the same time in most cases be done in under an hour. not the case with a pog, who are you trying to fool here?

I hate to be that person, but you really need to read the post and not snipe out pieces out of context.

I'm not trying to say they are or should be the same. I'm saying that without an agreement in place, you can't expect people not to treat PoG like Fear in that it doesn't matter who gets the kite or aoes the most mobs, anyone can FTE and kill CT/Tunare.

The whole reason there was and should be an agreement is because nobody wants PoG to be like Fear but 1000x worse.

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by Klem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dont compare POG to Fear lol. you can engage ct and handle adds at the same time in most cases be done in under an hour. not the case with a pog, who are you trying to fool here?

I would personally like to see a guild deal with a focuser while engaged and fighting Tunare.