Tunare agreement makes like a tree and leafs

[aaezil]

Agree that you’re all hopelessly addicted to pixels

[tylercanuck]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agree that you’re all hopelessly addicted to pixels

I think you are too considering your post count and infatuation with Detoxx.

[aaezil]

Originally Posted by tylercanuck [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you are too considering your post count and infatuation with Detoxx.

Meh. I play/raid casually maybe once twice a week. Don’t think I have the bug that bad. Certainly never leapfrogged or lawyerquested anyone becuase i needed pixels so badly.

[Heebs13]

Why is this hard?

Does it really matter whether you have 12 hours to start the clear or 12 hours to finish the clear? If you lost the FTE race at 11pm, what does it change for your guild if we have to start at 6am vs having to start before 11am, other than 'TEE HEE NOW THEY HAVE TO WAKE UP EARLY'? By the same token, what does it do for your guild to make us start a clear at 11pm other than again, depriving another guild of sleep?

Is the goal here to make an agreement that makes PoGrowth LESS miserable, or a shitty contest that benefits the biggest neckbeards?

[DromalPhrenia]

Originally Posted by Heebs13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is this hard?

Does it really matter whether you have 12 hours to start the clear or 12 hours to finish the clear? If you lost the FTE race at 11pm, what does it change for your guild if we have to start at 6am vs having to start before 11am, other than 'TEE HEE NOW THEY HAVE TO WAKE UP EARLY'? By the same token, what does it do for your guild to make us start a clear at 11pm other than again, depriving another guild of sleep?

Is the goal here to make an agreement that makes PoGrowth LESS miserable, or a shitty contest that benefits the biggest neckbeards?

For one thing, it pushes Tunare's death (potentially) a full day later. Every time this happens, you've now kept everyone else waiting an extra day. For the reason of "we don't want to do this yet." PoG can't be cleared without hours of killing, so the spawn time of Tunare will always be pushed back a bit, but that's because of the basic mechanics of clearing the zone of all mobs, not because some people decided they had better things to do.

For another thing, it gives you the option of either raiding relatively soon after spawn, or having Tunare sniped by another guild. We (and other guilds) still have a decent shot at Tunare if you screw up enough times or if your guild can't or won't show up in force in what I consider a reasonable time frame.

Engaging a mob for FTE that you aren't prepared to kill seems absurd to me. The only reason I would want an agreement in the first place is because PoG is a long crawl and no one wants PoG turning into an ever worse fear.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by DromalPhrenia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Engaging a mob for FTE that you aren't prepared to kill seems absurd to me.

...except when there was an agreement crafted that allows for that specific special circumstance to occur only for PoG/Tunare.

Not sure why some people are ignoring what was initially agreed upon and laughing about members of ced agreement following how it was written up.

Your argument is just as ‘absurd’ as asking a guild (During 1Hr FTE locks) why they are waiting til min 59 to pull their locked in mob...the answer is because they choose to.

[Heebs13]

Originally Posted by DromalPhrenia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For one thing, it pushes Tunare's death (potentially) a full day later. Every time this happens, you've now kept everyone else waiting an extra day. For the reason of "we don't want to do this yet." PoG can't be cleared without hours of killing, so the spawn time of Tunare will always be pushed back a bit, but that's because of the basic mechanics of clearing the zone of all mobs, not because some people decided they had better things to do.

For another thing, it gives you the option of either raiding relatively soon after spawn, or having Tunare sniped by another guild. We (and other guilds) still have a decent shot at Tunare if you screw up enough times or if your guild can't or won't show up in force in what I consider a reasonable time frame.

Engaging a mob for FTE that you aren't prepared to kill seems absurd to me. The only reason I would want an agreement in the first place is because PoG is a long crawl and no one wants PoG turning into an ever worse fear.

Pushing the spawn back potentially an entire day is the price you pay for not having to clear the zone at 3am. You have to give something up in order to make the game less shitty. If the agreement purposely makes it so only Aftermath is capable of downing Tunare if she spawns late, eventually she will spawn late (or be purposely downed later to push her window later) so that Tunare is more or less an Aftermath-only target. No one but Aftermath is going to agree to that, thus no agreement, thus FFA, thus guilds threatening to contest Tunare as per FFA rules. That's maximum shitty.

I'd even be willing to lose the "no 2x in a row" clause, which gives an advantage to the number 1 guild on the server, to keep the 12 hour clause. No one wants to do Tunare at 3am.

[Molitoth]

Originally Posted by Heebs13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is this hard?

Does it really matter whether you have 12 hours to start the clear or 12 hours to finish the clear? If you lost the FTE race at 11pm, what does it change for your guild if we have to start at 6am vs having to start before 11am, other than 'TEE HEE NOW THEY HAVE TO WAKE UP EARLY'? By the same token, what does it do for your guild to make us start a clear at 11pm other than again, depriving another guild of sleep?

Is the goal here to make an agreement that makes PoGrowth LESS miserable, or a shitty contest that benefits the biggest neckbeards?

It's really as simple as: AM has the members to clear PoG in the middle of the night, and the rest of the server doesn't. AM is trying to use that to their advantage. (can't blame them I suppose, as they are extremely dedicated players.)

Nobody can argue that fact, or else there wouldn't even be this conversation.
There is nothing wrong with taking 12 hours, as nobody else will even be in the zone until Tunare pops again. (Guilds aren't clearing PoG trash for loot)

[rezzie]

Originally Posted by Molitoth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AM has the members to clear PoG in the middle of the night, and the rest of the server doesn't. AM is trying to use that to their advantage. (can't blame them I suppose, as they are extremely dedicated players.)

Aftermath has been regularly killing around 4 out of every 5 Tunares over the past year.

The loot table was fixed and she became a much more valuable mob; it was clear she was going to become a contested target.

Aftermath did agree to a three slot rotation which would leave us with 1/3 Tunares, down from the 4/5 we had grown used to - pretty substantial.

Given that only three raiding entities have actually killed Tunare in the past year (Aftermath, PSG, Core/BG), everyone that had done a clear+kill would have a slot.

I don't think it's fair to say what we proposed was entirely unreasonable/greedy/outrageously pixel-lusty.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by rezzie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aftermath has been regularly killing around 4 out of every 5 Tunares over the past year.

The loot table was fixed and she became a much more valuable mob; it was clear she was going to become a contested target.

Aftermath did agree to a three slot rotation which would leave us with 1/3 Tunares, down from the 4/5 we had grown used to - pretty substantial.

Given that only three raiding entities have actually killed Tunare in the past year (Aftermath, PSG, Core/BG), everyone that had done a clear+kill would have a slot.

I don't think it's fair to say what we proposed was entirely unreasonable/greedy/outrageously pixel-lusty.

Telling other guilds what they can or cant do is somewhat greedy, yes.

Having sustained success on a mob does not equate to “owning” mob rights. Sure you have the strongest negotiating position in this case (24 hour capable pog clear) but that doesnt bestow mob ownership upon you.

You said it yourself, she simply was not that contested due to loot table, there was no other ‘magic’ to your made up 4 out of 5 Tunare stat that is suppose to show ownership.