Necro lull -- this can't be classic.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Baylan295 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please provide evidence to support your point that it isn’t classic and then post it in then bug forums. In the meantime, your experience is similar to mine - so filed under “working as intended.”

Where exactly did they get the current resist rates? And what planet did the charisma component of an enchanter spell become a benefit instead of a liability?

[DMN]

"Yes it is. It varies on a number of spells to its actual usefulness but it does have a use. There are different levels of charisma for different classes. The system does take into account that an Enchanter should have a higher charisma than say a Necromancer. It�s unfair to expect masters of the undead to be entirely charismatic. "

This means the charisma check is often not a benefit but a penalty which punishes certain classes more than others. Said in another way, a 100 charisma necro is better at holding charm than a 100 charisma enchanter.

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Yes it is. It varies on a number of spells to its actual usefulness but it does have a use. There are different levels of charisma for different classes. The system does take into account that an Enchanter should have a higher charisma than say a Necromancer. It�s unfair to expect masters of the undead to be entirely charismatic. "

This means the charisma check is often not a benefit but a penalty which punishes certain classes more than others. Said in another way, a 100 charisma necro is better at holding charm than a 100 charisma enchanter.

That doesn’t at all say that it’s a penalty. It says that the calculation is different for different classes, and you completely disregarded all the evidence that says it’s another save, which means it can only be a benefit to that particular class.

AFAIK (because I don’t have a necro), on p99 there is no charisma check for necros and enchanters have that check, so I would expect better results for an enchanter than a necro given similar conditions because there is an additional chance to save calm.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Baylan295 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That doesn’t at all say that it’s a penalty. It says that the calculation is different for different classes, and you completely disregarded all the evidence that says it’s another save, which means it can only be a benefit to that particular class.

AFAIK (because I don’t have a necro), on p99 there is no charisma check for necros and enchanters have that check, so I would expect better results for an enchanter than a necro given similar conditions because there is an additional chance to save calm.

So if I require black people to pay twice as much in taxes to not go to jail than white pieople, is that a penalty or a benefit. Let me know.

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if I require black people to pay twice as much in taxes to not go to jail than white pieople, is that a penalty or a benefit. Let me know.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Baylan295 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Who the fuck is talking about nazis? My analogy was intended to show you the difference of a restive penalty versus an absolute one. But you seem a little short in the chromosomal department.

[Sinadin]

60 ench and 57 necro here...necro lull is way way worse than my enchanters and was wondering myself if something is wrong with it.

[DMN]

I tested this quite a bit back in the day, mainly to prove that LOW CHARISMA didn't improve necromancer charm/mez/lulll abilities. This was an oft claimed urban legend of sorts by people back in the day but i showed it was not true, but also showed that having high charisma did not improve things noticeably either. It appeared that necromancer gained nor lost anything related to charisma. My enchanter on the other hand had clear differences in those abilities. And in order to be on equal footing with my necro the enchanter always needed to be fully geared/buff for cha. My necro could have been naked and ahad the same rates as the enchanter. My enahcnter was NEVER better at charming/lulling/mezzing undead than my necro.

Reading what GZ said in that thread, my guess is that necro's "soft" cap for charisma was extremely low, while enchanters was much, much higher.

[Elerial]

Contrary to popular belief, "Lull" line and "Rest the dead" line aren't the same line. One works on everything (level capped) the other only works on undead.

Rest the dead has no positive charisma check for crit fails while the Lull line does. That's why Necros/SK's aren't advised to gather cha gear.

Paladins, clerics and enchanters with high cha gear can pretty much waltz anywhere. The difficulty is ofcourse in that same order. Paladin, while they can lull, in case of a crit resist are up shit's creek, while cleric can mem blurr after a successful lull and enchanter can do it even better.

Most people use Calm in most situations thought, because it reduces the aggro radius the most out of all the spells. Lull is also lower level capped.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Elerial [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most people use Calm in most situations thought, because it reduces the aggro radius the most out of all the spells. Lull is also lower level capped.

This is all wrong.

Most people use calm because it is enough of an aggro radius reduction while being pretty cheap on Mana and lasting 3 minutes. Lull reduction is too small for some situations, but it's cheap and lasts a long time still (and as far as I've seen in using it, it doesn't actually have a level limit on p99, at least not compared to calm and definitely not low enough that anything you'd actually dare casting it on will be unaffected). The higher level spells (pacify, etc) have larger reductions than calm but cost a lot more Mana and have shorter durations, so they go unused.