How much dps does haste add?

[aaezil]

Yeah but haste cant get you lower than the delay cap right? Is that a limiting factor for haste here?

[Cilraaz]

Here's a 2006 post that should be mostly relevant. Assuming the P99 devs kept server ticks the same, minimum effective delay, after haste, would be 7.8.

[Legidias]

If you drive 60 miles in 60 minutes, it's 60 mph, yes?

If you drive 60 miles in 30 minutes, it's 120 mph, yes?

Lowering the time to reach your destination by 50% also means your speed increased by double

Now replace miles with dmg/hp and minutes with seconds and you have DPS.

OFC if you are using procs / other things to boost damage, it doesn't apply, but I don't think anyone is taking that into account with haste. It's just raw physical DPS.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you drive 60 miles in 60 minutes, it's 60 mph, yes?

If you drive 60 miles in 30 minutes, it's 120 mph, yes?

Lowering the time to reach your destination by 50% also means your speed increased by double

Now replace miles with dmg/hp and minutes with seconds and you have DPS.

OFC if you are using procs / other things to boost damage, it doesn't apply, but I don't think anyone is taking that into account with haste. It's just raw physical DPS.

But that ignores limits. If you have a 65 MPH speed limit and limit yourself to only going 80MPH, it doesn't matter if your car is capable of going 120 MPH, yes? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, I'm pretty sure it's been established that procs are independent of haste or even delay, so haste doesn't increase them at all. If I understand it correctly, essentially the server gives you a fixed chance per minute to proc, and you get that same chance whether you hit once a minute or a hundred times a minute.

I might have misunderstood that, but I've given up hasting OT Hammer people (including myself) awhile ago and never had any complaints.

[Pringles]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I might have misunderstood that, but I've given up hasting OT Hammer people (including myself) awhile ago and never had any complaints.

You should be slowing yourself or others if you want to proc faster along with maxing dex.

Explained better elsewhere

"...Procs don't have an internal cooldown or anything. They have a procs per minute (PPM) value that gets translated into a percentage chance per swing to achieve an average of x PPM, the chance depending on the delay of the weapon. Most weapons have the same proc chance, and so a 40dly weapon's proc will have twice the proc chance of a 20dly weapon with a proc."

"For example, say you have a weapon with 60 delay (for the sake of easy math) that has a proc rate of 5/minute. That means that it has a roughly 50% chance to proc per swing (10 swings per minute, 5 procs per minute).

If you get a 50% haste with that weapon, it drops the delay to 45. Now you are taking 15 swings per minute rather than 10, and because of that your chance to proc per swing drops to 33.3%. The weapon will still proc an average of 5 times per minute, but has a lower chance to proc per individual swing. And before you ask, yes, being slowed does increase your chance to proc per swing since it decreases your swing rate without affecting PPM."

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Pringles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should be slowing yourself or others if you want to proc faster along with maxing dex.

Explained better elsewhere

I haven't personally done any studies, but based on what I've read before I believe that is a myth.

"For example, say you have a weapon with 60 delay (for the sake of easy math) that has a proc rate of 5/minute. That means that it has a roughly 50% chance to proc per swing (10 swings per minute, 5 procs per minute).

Right there that's a misunderstanding (again, as best I've been able to suss out from many different opinions in many different posts on this subject, doing my best to listen to the most knowledgeable people ... but still potentially being wrong).

As I understand it, It's not that you have 10 swings per minute and thus 5 procs per minute: it's that you get 5 procs per minute, period. Those procs are then divided up among however many swings per minute. It doesn't matter if you slow or haste to reduce or increase those number of swings: the server gives you 5 procs per minute regardless.

If anyone has a spreadsheet or more accurate source of information I'll happily change my mind.

[Pringles]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't personally done any studies, but based on what I've read before I believe that is a myth.



Right there that's a misunderstanding (again, as best I've been able to suss out from many different opinions in many different posts on this subject, doing my best to listen to the most knowledgeable people ... but still potentially being wrong).

As I understand it, It's not that you have 10 swings per minute and thus 5 procs per minute: it's that you get 5 procs per minute, period. Those procs are then divided up among however many swings per minute. It doesn't matter if you slow or haste to reduce or increase those number of swings: the server gives you 5 procs per minute regardless.

If anyone has a spreadsheet or more accurate source of information I'll happily change my mind.

OK then plug in real numbers.
255 dex 1.75 PPM
OT Hammer 50 delay

Unslowed: Swing hammer 12 times a minute 1.75ppm/12 = 15% chance to proc per interval
Slowed: Swing hammer 6.85 times a minute 1.75ppm/6.85 = 25% chance to proc per interval
that's using old stock slow code from EQEmu though if we use the correct implementation
slowed hammer: swings 3 times a minutes 1.75ppm/3 = 58% chance to proc per interval

if (dex > 255.0)
dex = 255.0

chance = (0.0004166667 + 1.1437908496732e-5 * dex) * weapon_speed

if (hand == MainSecondary)
chance /= 1.6

While PPM remains the same your chances are far more front loaded with a slowed delay.

[Pringles]

Minimum delay here is capped at 5. That rounding affect was fixed in 2007 on live and was due to 1/12.8 sec acting as a combat "tick" and how that played out over many iterations of swings. Unsure of what was implemented here in regards to combat ticks. Haste and dps is sorta weird in that whatever applies first spell, item, or song haste has a far greater effect. Just as a hypothetical say someone casts a 60% haste on you bringing your total haste up to 160% throwing on a 40% item will only increase your effectiveness by 25% up to cap. The other way around 60% spell haste only has an effectiveness of 42%. As opposed to doing it via multiplicative rules

[Legidias]

Unless you have a weapon with delay like 10, you won't be hitting that limit (haste cap is 100% here).

Like I said, it ignores non-physical dmg.

[Rygar]

If you had a 40 delay weapon, having a 100% haste value would make it a 20 delay weapon.

Something like:
Delay = Weapon Delay * (1 - (Haste decimal value / 2)).

So a 10% haste on a 40 delay weapon makes it:

Delay = 40 * (1 - (0.1 / 2))
or
Delay = 40 * (0.95)
or
Delay = 38

A 10 % haste won't reduce the delay by 10% as some are saying (i.e delay of 36).

So a 10% haste item in this situation would increase your DPS by 5.26%

Change my mind.