P99 Enchanter Strike

[Nanto]

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/90145-post124.html

proof enough?

[fatalis]

Well i played a Chanter on live back in the kunark era and I hardly ever used it, as it was so unreliable....Certainly too unreliable for soloing...I'd be lucky if charm would last one fight...on occasions it might last two.

I mainly used it as a crowd control tool in groups.....Chanters could never really solo that well back in the day and it sounds to me like they have inadvertently had a 'I WIN' button on p99 and have gotten a little too used to it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Marley]

Stop bitchin and compensate! Have the cleric in your group stun on charm break maybe? Or a necro can screaming terror your pet while you re-tash/malo (if available). Soloing is probably outta the question unless your a rune whore. I myself have found if the enchanter charms a mob a few levels lower, charm works great in a group of skilled players. I'm a cleric though, wtf do i know [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Throb]

Originally Posted by Marley [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

. I myself have found if the enchanter charms a mob a few levels lower, charm works great in a group of skilled players. I'm a cleric though, wtf do i know [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uh, more like 15 levels below you (aka, light blue) and even then I've seen 10 second breaks. If you charm something even close to level 50 now the mana expense to constantly recharm on these fast breaks isn't worth the little bit of DPS the pet does when he isn't trying to rip off your face.

[Humerox]

funny how nobody's ponied up about how OP charm was on raids, and how it trivialized encounters to a ridiculous degree.

not knocking the chanters, god knows I luv 'em, but hey...

just sayin~

[Throb]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

funny how nobody's ponied up about how OP charm was on raids, and how it trivialized encounters to a ridiculous degree.

not knocking the chanters, god knows I luv 'em, but hey...

just sayin~

Ponied up? There is no denying an army of charmed pets was way overpowered. Honestly, I think people are misremembering a lot of things regarding classic charm. Lots of enchanters didn't even use it, epsecially on raids. Hell, most necromancers and mages weren't allowed to use pets on raids. People were so completely illogical and unreasonable regarding any pets whatsoever on raids, and that continued well into Luclin and maybe beyond. It only takes a few idiots that can't control their shit to make people flip the fuck out and say enough is enough, no more pets.

However, the enchanters I knew that were good at it and knew their shit, were literally gods in classic. I don't know about your server, but on mine the first classes to solo lower guk (king and ghoul lord) in classic were enchanters and necromancers because of charm. In exp groups with a shaman and enc, the exp flowed even well into POP, until they nerfed it.

Making enchanters take it up the ass like this (and that IS what you're doing) is NOT classic. If you want to nerf charm fine, but let's be reasonable about it.... even if it does not fall in line with classic, someone needs to look at the resist checks and tell me it's not completely fucked up. There is a middle ground here that will let enchanters have some of their deserved power and appease the haters at the same time. Let's get there.

Thanks.

[Rilen]

To harp on a bit of what Throb said. I think most people are misleading themselves in thinking that charm is as it was on live. How many ench did you know with 255 charisma that constantly ran malo/tash on their pets? How many did you know that kept -MR items bagged specifically to give to pets to lower their break chances?

Like many things here, they seem OP'd because everyone knows the name of the game already. On live MANY things simply were not done the way they are here because of a lack of general knowledge of such things. I distinctly remember enchanters doing duo/trio work in Kunark, and I remember when my group of friends first got started in Velious charming giants in the arena. My little collective of friends would have been incapable of doing anything were it not for the ench holding a lieutenant in the arena as a pet.

The reason I remember for charm and pets in general not being as prevalent in the experience scene is that pets ALWAYS took a percentage of exp; even if you did 5 damage or whatever. Also, like Throb said, people had a stigma about people not controlling their pets, or a paranoia about pet pathing that over-rode whatever assistance they might have given on raids.

And to reiterate some of what I said, even after the charm nerfs on live I ran a PLing service for 60+ characters using druid charm as my primary method of xp. This was on a DRUID with approximately 200 charisma, no dire charm. I had no problem keeping pets for 10 minutes to kill 3-5 mobs before the charm broke and then I'd DD/DoT and kill the pet.

As it stands now, between not being able to retrieve items from pets, and the charms seeming to be entirely level based, the charm line for all classes involved is nearly useless. This isn't the way it should be for a character with 255 charisma, malo, and 5-10 levels on the mob being charmed.

It needs to be recognized that while people may not have their own anecdotal evidence of charm being powerful (or any "overused" ability here), 90% of that reason is because this server has MANY players with MUCH higher skill than any of our live servers had. The worst guilds on this server are still 10x better, and more knowledgeable than most of the population of any live server. Most people here flat out play at a higher skill level than what was seen normally on live. We don't all deserve to suffer, or be forced into some niche of mediocrity simply because we know what we're doing or understand how to play the game.

[Ruinous]

Originally Posted by Throb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ponied up? There is no denying an army of charmed pets was way overpowered. Honestly, I think people are misremembering a lot of things regarding classic charm. Lots of enchanters didn't even use it, epsecially on raids. Hell, most necromancers and mages weren't allowed to use pets on raids. People were so completely illogical and unreasonable regarding any pets whatsoever on raids, and that continued well into Luclin and maybe beyond. It only takes a few idiots that can't control their shit to make people flip the fuck out and say enough is enough, no more pets.

However, the enchanters I knew that were good at it and knew their shit, were literally gods in classic. I don't know about your server, but on mine the first classes to solo lower guk (king and ghoul lord) in classic were enchanters and necromancers because of charm. In exp groups with a shaman and enc, the exp flowed even well into POP, until they nerfed it.

Making enchanters take it up the ass like this (and that IS what you're doing) is NOT classic. If you want to nerf charm fine, but let's be reasonable about it.... even if it does not fall in line with classic, someone needs to look at the resist checks and tell me it's not completely fucked up. There is a middle ground here that will let enchanters have some of their deserved power and appease the haters at the same time. Let's get there.

Thanks.

An army? How about one enchanter, with one charmed Cleric in hate making or breaking a KS group? Literally doing more DPS than any other group filled with DPS classes. Doesn't take an army, pal.

I don't know how many times it needs to be engraved into your thick skull to realize Enchanters were a utility class. Not a DPS class. The truth of the matter is that the Dev's do their best to recreate a classic experience. This isn't some personal vendetta against your class. They are simply doing what they believe is truthful to classic (which many people, aside from the squeaky wheels complaining, will attest to). If you want to disprove them, work less with "OMG CHARM BROKED AFTER 1.32 SEC AND THE MOB TOUCHED ME IN THE NAUGHTY PLACE" and work more with solid evidence to disprove that the system is currently incorrect.

If you chose to play the class simply for Charming alone, you chose the wrong reasons. Ya'll are bitching quite a bit about the game not being easy any more for you. You came here knowing full well that classic EQ was not, which separated it out from the rest of the MMO's that followed.

[Sorrow*qc]

its funny how all the necros know exactly how the chanters were on live

[baalzy]

Who do you think we had to compete with when they figured out how to charm?