Rules on Camps that have lists

[Jan Jensen]

I ain't keeping a "list" for random people that may or may not even be online. If you're a friend, sure; otherwise, you would do well to be present if you think you're entitled to it.

[katrik]

I’ve camped AC many times. The fact of that matter is that there is a group of people that follow this player-created list system, and players who do not and follow traditional camp rules. What really needs to happen is for mods to create a specific rule set for this camp. Until that happens, there will continue to be widespread confusion and abuse.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by katrik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’ve camped AC many times. The fact of that matter is that there is a group of people that follow this player-created list system, and players who do not and follow traditional camp rules. What really needs to happen is for mods to create a specific rule set for this camp. Until that happens, there will continue to be widespread confusion and abuse.

I haven't camped the AC in a while, but there were a few natural factors that help keep the camp honest:

1. its a fast a spawn time. very fast actually. its easy to let a ph pop in the camp if you are screwing around, semi-afk, or trying to hand the camp off.

2. unless you are bound there it isn't easy to get to right away, given #1 above that means you have to be ready to go when someone tries to hand it off to you. a legit run to the camp could take 30 minutes from most of norrath...which is multiple PHs.

3. the named ALWAYS drops the ring...which means the person holding the camp is done and someone else is going to get it now. given #1 and #2 above this means the next person has to be ready to take the hand off. in camps where the named doesn't always drop the loot it is impossible to know if the guy just got the item he was camping...which means he could lie and continue to hold the camp while his friend is en route.

The camp is abused by MQ farmers...but I've never had any issue camping there and checking back every few hours waiting to get the camp. Usually it takes a while but its not overly corrupted. Other camps that don't have the above situation make it EXTREMELY easy for someone to abuse a list.

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't camped the AC in a while, but there were a few natural factors that help keep the camp honest:

1. its a fast a spawn time. very fast actually. its easy to let a ph pop in the camp if you are screwing around, semi-afk, or trying to hand the camp off.

2. unless you are bound there it isn't easy to get to right away, given #1 above that means you have to be ready to go when someone tries to hand it off to you. a legit run to the camp could take 30 minutes from most of norrath...which is multiple PHs.

3. the named ALWAYS drops the ring...which means the person holding the camp is done and someone else is going to get it now. given #1 and #2 above this means the next person has to be ready to take the hand off. in camps where the named doesn't always drop the loot it is impossible to know if the guy just got the item he was camping...which means he could lie and continue to hold the camp while his friend is en route.

The camp is abused by MQ farmers...but I've never had any issue camping there and checking back every few hours waiting to get the camp. Usually it takes a while but its not overly corrupted. Other camps that don't have the above situation make it EXTREMELY easy for someone to abuse a list.

Yeah, AC in particular is tough due to location. If I want to camp it and get on the list I either, 1) stay in zone and do something else, kill seafuries for example or 2) camp the character who will be killing the mobs at the camp and log an alt till my turn comes up.

I only do (2) if the person at the camp doesn't seem sketchy. If I see 4 of the guys corpses littered around the island I just assume he's corpsing rings and I wait in zone.

When I hand off the camp I obviously inform the new person of the list, but I also tell every person on the list who I am handing off to as well as the people who are ahead of them. I do this specifically for AC camp and no others because people are occasionally douches and will try to pass off to friends or guildies. At least they can be called out on it if the current list members are aware of who is ahead of them.

[Teppler]

The rules are out there but so many people follow their own version of them.

My recent favorite was by someone who said they were a former guide tell me if you don’t answer a cc you don’t have camp. I’ve see this and other similar examples from plenty of level 60s in high end camps.

[Menden]

Don't be a douche, it's pretty simple.

[aaezil]

Originally Posted by Menden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't be a douche, it's pretty simple.

Don’t be a douche is far from the only rule here and more confusion/petitions/suspensions will spread by just saying that instead of providing more clear/specific/easy to find rules.

You shouldnt have to dig in a forum for 20 minuts reading through how ac or sf or tranix or lucan camps work - you should be able to know how they work by reading one pinned rules post. This is curently not the case.

[katrik]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don’t be a douche is far from the only rule here and more confusion/petitions/suspensions will spread by just saying that instead of providing more clear/specific/easy to find rules.

You shouldnt have to dig in a forum for 20 minuts reading through how ac or sf or tranix or lucan camps work - you should be able to know how they work by reading one pinned rules post. This is curently not the case.

This. There needs to be a change. It would eliminate so much headache for the mods here.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by katrik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This. There needs to be a change. It would eliminate so much headache for the mods here.

Its not a new discussion, but my opinion on it has always been:

If you make fixed "code-law" like rules then folks who are jerks will (still) find a way to make loop holes to get around the rules, only now the GMs will have their hands tied by the rules.

We're better off now with GMs able to look at the general rules and apply them to the specific instance that they are mediating.

I do agree that the current system is a bit scatter-shot spread over several threads and posts by devs/GMs for the last seven years. Re-organizing and consolidating (not changing) the posting of the rules would prob be a help to new players...but its a free emu, I'm not going to tell someone to work on this for my free entertainment.

I'd also agree that some camps (the ones that are the most popular that a majority of players at some time in their EQ play will encounter. things like AC, stormfeather, some epic bits, key bits, etc.) could also do with single consolidated post of existing information (not new information)...but again, its a free emu, not a paid game...I'm entitled to nothing.

Personally, I'm very suspicious of players that clamor for specific rules. From a gaming perspective, I cannot think of a single game that I've ever played that the "rules lawyer" has made better. They've existed in every game I've ever played (from pen and paper rpgs to board games to mmos...and from time to time I have regrettably taken that role too). In most games it becomes toxic.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its not a new discussion, but my opinion on it has always been:

If you make fixed "code-law" like rules then folks who are jerks will (still) find a way to make loop holes to get around the rules, only now the GMs will have their hands tied by the rules.

We're better off now with GMs able to look at the general rules and apply them to the specific instance that they are mediating.

I do agree that the current system is a bit scatter-shot spread over several threads and posts by devs/GMs for the last seven years. Re-organizing and consolidating (not changing) the posting of the rules would prob be a help to new players...but its a free emu, I'm not going to tell someone to work on this for my free entertainment.

I'd also agree that some camps (the ones that are the most popular that a majority of players at some time in their EQ play will encounter. things like AC, stormfeather, some epic bits, key bits, etc.) could also do with single consolidated post of existing information (not new information)...but again, its a free emu, not a paid game...I'm entitled to nothing.

Personally, I'm very suspicious of players that clamor for specific rules. From a gaming perspective, I cannot think of a single game that I've ever played that the "rules lawyer" has made better. They've existed in every game I've ever played (from pen and paper rpgs to board games to mmos...and from time to time I have regrettably taken that role too). In most games it becomes toxic.

I would take the completely opposite perspective. I'm very suspicious of people that don't want the rules clarified. It tells me you have some intention to bend camp rules to your will. Any camp situation is made better by having clearer rules. If players want to come to their own agreements, they can still do that.