FFA vs Faction PVP

[Heywood]

I like how you use comments like "100x more downfalls" and "you'll be forced to solo 99% of the time" as if it's backed by scientific research.

You and I both know that's simply not true. We were both in fish bait in vztz, obviously not the "strongest" guild on the server at the time, but yet we were able to frequently farm fear, lguk, hate with ease.

You make it sound like joining a guild is bad. That's usually how people make friends. Not to say people won't make friends outside of guilds. Even then, in a faction based server, there's going to be guilds, so what were you trying to prove.

[pasi]

It really comes down to whether or not we want to try something different or just recreate VZTZ. I don't think we can assume that just because this is a Rogean/99 server, that we're going to have a large population (at least after the short term).

Again, I don't think there is going to be anything that will deter people more from the game than not having people to play with on a guild vs guild server. I agree that there is nothing wrong with essentially forcing players to join a guild to progress. For me, the issue is how soon. How soon should you be required to join a guild upon starting on this server? If you expect solo players to find a guild right out of the gate before they know people on the server, you are delusional. Some of the players will stick around, but the majority will quit.

Keep in mind that with no boxes and slow exp, a guild is going to be even more necessary than it was on VZTZ.

There are a lot of issues with teams, but most of these are not that hard to fix. Off the top of my head: Classes not available on both teams? Fuck lore, both teams have all classes. Crossteaming? Hardcode it. Two guilds on the same team going after the same raid target? Make raid zones (plus say, LGuk) FFA.

I don't have an answer to population imbalance, but I know there are people like me who are going to try to be on the underpopulated team. It's not too hard to figure out which team will be underpopulated, you just roll against Mantille.

[Aerist]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are a lot of issues with teams, but most of these are not that hard to fix. Off the top of my head: Classes not available on both teams? Fuck lore, both teams have all classes. Crossteaming? Hardcode it. Two guilds on the same team going after the same raid target? Make raid zones (plus say, LGuk) FFA.

Actually, to be completely honest this sounds like a pretty damn good compromise to the FFA/Teams set up.

Especially the whole FFA in raid zones.

Would meet wehrmacts desire to have a teams server, and the FFA group of being able to kill same faction people on raid mobs.


ps: probably not that hard to code either.

Shody

[redghosthunter]

Seems like from what is being said, were all screwed either way.

A. Good vs Evil
most people roll up evil chars, 75% evil vis 25% good. Evil wins again and again. Good chars quit. Ya end up with a 85% evil side. The Evil side cant pvp themselves.. so basically ya back at pve.

B. Teams
Dominating 1 or 2 guilds kill everyone, and everything is locked down. New players start up and quit short time later. Sounds like what happened already over at VzTz X 3 . Isnt the rule 3 strikes and ya out?

So the only intelligent option would be... We need a totally new system.

Only thing coming to mind is a system, where death mattered and was permanent. Due to the constant chaos no dominating players could emerge.

~Fast exp would be needed or pvp would be stuck at low lvls.
~Full Loot of dead
~New players encouraged to band together pvp-- to get gear looted from strong players/guilds. Gear is the prob of any new player. Want gear? Go pvp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
~Big name players--- constantly having to rebuild. Sooner or later everyone dies. Think about it... who ends up with the most of the Pvp kills? A few super tweak, insiders.

Pvp for the LOVE of it! Not to stroke your EGOs.

[Badmartigan]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're voting FFA and you're not already in a guild, you're completely out of your mind. There will be 1-2 guilds in control of every worthwhile xp and loot zone in the game and if you zone into it, you'll be dead after about 2 seconds.

My 60 man UO guild may come to this server when it opens too. Do you really want to have to deal with that anytime you zone into guk? It will make Heresy domination of box 1.0 look tame in comparison. At least with teams, you might be able to put together a force big enough to survive 5 minutes.

If they make a rule set that allows 1 guild on the server to dominate everyone that badly, population will drop faster than you can imagine.

it wasnt like that on RZ>.... not everyone that plays PVP is a random PK that kills everyone but their own guild dude.

[Dojii]

Originally Posted by notahipster [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

dont go

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Aerist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, to be completely honest this sounds like a pretty damn good compromise to the FFA/Teams set up.

Especially the whole FFA in raid zones.

Would meet wehrmacts desire to have a teams server, and the FFA group of being able to kill same faction people on raid mobs.

Shody

Already thought of this. Sounds good on paper but works out worse than FFA or Teams in practice. Places like Karnors and Sebillis would be considered "raid zones" under this system and those zones are where the majority of dark vs light PvP would have taken place. What you would end up with is a broken FFA system with really no benefits of the team system at all. It's the worst of both systems with none of the benefits.

[Abacab "The REAL truth"]

People choose PvP because they want the option to kill people, it seems like everyone is forgetting this notion and wants "security" in the form of teams so you can collect your pixels without much threat

If you want teams and "contested" zones so badly then just go play WoW and sit around quest zones all day ganking people of the opposing faction then retreating back to a safe zone when you begin to get overwhelmed.

[Icecometus]

That about sums it up.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by lethdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What examples do we have from a hard coded team server (sullon zek)? Evil team on top forever, 100% of the server history with one team dominating the others.

Probably because the 2 best guilds on the server (Ruin & Hate) were on evil team and there was a bad diety selection system that ensured good team would never be powerful. Change it to two teams instead and there's no reason either team would be lopsided in power.

The difference is that even if one team dominated the server and are the only ones clearing ToV, the other team is at least doing Plane of Growth and other zones. Under a FFA system, the top two guilds will take all those zones while everyone on the server that isn't in one of those guilds quits then the server dies.