40 day raid ban

[loramin]

Originally Posted by mefdinkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So please recognize that the nature of EQ on P99, the level of competition, the mechanics of the game, the ever adjusting rule set, and the enforcers of the rules then tell me you can't comprehend how a guild could violate the rules unintentionally.

Amen (to that and the rest of your post). I never meant to imply that the rules were 100% clear, that there was never ambiguity or unexpected GM interpretations, or any of that, but obviously all of that complexity is incredibly relevant.

And I do comprehend how a guild could violate the rules unintentionally. However, if a guild accidentally/unintentionally violates a rule, despite clearly having made attempts to follow all the rules, and that guild hasn't broken any other rules lately, I would be very surprised if they got suspended.

Heck, even with the A/A guilds I don't imagine Rogean and Sirken rubbing their hands like cartoon villains as they watch A/A raid, hoping to find some technicalicatiy to suspend them on. It seems far more likely that their suspensions aren't just the result of a single unintentional action, but rather that action coupled with the guild's larger history.

So again, it comes down to the actions of guild leaders. They can make their best efforts to avoid suspension, and very likely lose some competitions as a result, or they can compete to the bleeding edge and risk suspensions. They still have a choice, and adhering to the rules is still a viable option: you may lose some competitions, but you'll win a whole lot more when your rival is suspended and you aren't.

[mefdinkins]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Heck, even with the A/A guilds I don't imagine Rogean and Sirken rubbing their hands like cartoon villains as they watch A/A raid, hoping to find some technicalicatiy to suspend them on. It seems far more likely that their suspensions aren't just the result of a single unintentional action, but rather that action coupled with the guild's larger history.

So again, it comes down to the actions of guild leaders. They can make their best efforts to avoid suspension, and very likely lose some competitions as a result, or they can compete to the bleeding edge and risk suspensions. They still have a choice, and adhering to the rules is still a viable option: you may lose some competitions, but you'll win a whole lot more when your rival is suspended and you aren't.

Well, I for one have never been a leader or officer in a raiding guild. I will tell you that RNF spin, public opinion, half-truths, and propaganda are pretty common on P99. There's also a lack of transparency and your average player probably doesn't know about all the dealing and communication that goes on behind the scenes. I've seen a lot of players say, "this suspension really sends a message." I never really understand what that message is. Some people say the message is "TMO needs to be off the server" or "Awakened has to change it's leader" or "it's time for a rotation" or "AM+AW have to work out their own beefs instead of bothering the GMs." Whatever the message has been, it's clearly been missed by a large population of P99.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by mefdinkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've seen a lot of players say, "this suspension really sends a message." I never really understand what that message is. Some people say the message is "TMO needs to be off the server" or "Awakened has to change it's leader" or "it's time for a rotation" or "AM+AW have to work out their own beefs instead of bothering the GMs." Whatever the message has been, it's clearly been missed by a large population of P99.

Heh, to me that's low hanging fruit: the message seems pretty clearly to be "play by the rules."

Also, I don't think it gets missed by everyone: 40 days off tends to make people pay attention to messages.

[Moerne]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Heh, to me that's low hanging fruit: the message seems pretty clearly to be "play by the rules."

I've never raided with the A/A's, so I can't speak to what happens in NTOV, but I can tell you that even for the casual raiding guilds this can still be a problem, and you can't just simplify it down to "play by the rules". I'll give you an example of a situation we encountered when I was an officer in Paradox.

We were in Fear, contesting golem pops with another guild who will not be mentioned because the drama isn't needed. They made the FTE on the golem, but their puller got turned around, and pulled it into our camp thinking it was his. We were on the same wall, but not all that close to each other. Not even in los. Neither group had intentionally positioned themselves to be a problem for the other. The golem began rampaging through our ranks, and we killed it rather than let it wipe us.

This was a situation where mistakes were clearly made on both sides. But nothing was done intentionally, and there weren't a lot of options available. The puller's only option was Don't Make a Mistake - you've already agreed that's not exactly a viable option.

Our raid force's only option was Let The Mob Wipe Us. Well, in the heat of the moment that's just not something that's easy to do, especially when no one is sure of what's happening, where this mob came from, or why it's suddenly killing us.

So mistakes were made on both sides. Luckily, neither guild wanted a suspension over one golem, and we were able to work it out. But a suspension is what would likely have happened had it gone to GM resolution, and it wouldn't have been because of bad leadership choices, or because people were trying to get away with breaking the rules.